Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#586
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,063
See above. The "double extension" doesn't gain you much extra; only 3 months, in comparison to the current case.
This is because the current system allows for as much as 27 months of status (all of the rest of the current calendar year, all of the next calendar year, and 3 months grace period of the calendar year after that), while the new system only allows for 15 months of status (all of the brand-new immediately-started membership year, and 3 months grace period thereafter)
This is because the current system allows for as much as 27 months of status (all of the rest of the current calendar year, all of the next calendar year, and 3 months grace period of the calendar year after that), while the new system only allows for 15 months of status (all of the brand-new immediately-started membership year, and 3 months grace period thereafter)
But as I said FB has said absolutely nothing about what happens to the XP of people who qualify for status (esp. plat) between new year and conversion. In the best-case scenario (nothing happens and all XP are treated as newly earned with the next level check at the end of qualification in 2019) the above applies. In the worst-case scenario, they deduct 300XP at the end of the year, pretending the qualification didn't already happen.
Another scenario is to treat the date on which you reached either 70k LM or 60 QF as the new qualification date as per the new system and deduct 300XP after 12 months. Yet another is to treat March 31 as the qualification date for already anyone qualified before then (this would have status renew and roll-over on 31mar19). Yet another possible scenario is to deduct the 60QF/70kLM before doing the conversion, effectively applying the new system to the old. There are many options; I can think of more.
#587
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 179
The website details only what has changed. Everything else - such as the grace period of the card that will be issued, which is not an officially documented part of the programme anyway - will remain as it currently is.
Remember, you don't "really" have status during the grace period, anyway. It's just a convenient fiction that recognises the logistical problem of getting your new status card to you in time - and to also account for the delay in getting that very status card to you at the moment it was earned.
Remember, you don't "really" have status during the grace period, anyway. It's just a convenient fiction that recognises the logistical problem of getting your new status card to you in time - and to also account for the delay in getting that very status card to you at the moment it was earned.
I could imagine, with only moderate effort, that, while the official wording is not yet in place; the intent has been already clearly defined; and perhaps this discussion is useful to FB, in order to establish the final wording of their new T&C.
#588
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
Everyone who is affected should consider their plans for 2018 and determine for themselves if it is of great consequence whether to do an early "segment" run; of course, it depends on considering what their behaviour pre- and post-conversion would be, too. It would be wasteful to move high-XP earning flights forward if you instead hope to benefit from your level segments counter, for example.
And if you are hoping to "extend" your status, you need to give it particular thought. Statuses earned in the new programme, which can happen as early as on 1 April 2018 as part of the conversion process, will only be for 12 months, i.e. to 31 March 2019 [to ignore the "3 months grace" at the end]. Anyone who has a chance to earn status in the first 3 months of 2018 would have it to 31 December 2019 [again, to ignore the "3 months grace" at the end].
Only those few, who due to a very particular combination of level miles or level segments, may actually expect to benefit from a faster upgrade as a result of the conversion process, may be advised to "delay" upgrading in the early part of 2018. Everyone else would most likely benefit from rushing to get status in the first Q of 2018 under current rules, as the status will last substantially longer.
#589
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
#590
Join Date: May 2009
Programs: FB Platinum For Life, HH Diamond
Posts: 177
Not sure whether anyone already posted this: I received this e-mail from American Express NL.
Eerder deze week maakte Air France-KLM bekend dat Flying Blue vanaf 1 april 2018 een nieuwe weg inslaat.
Goed nieuws. Met uw Flying Blue-American Express Platinum Card blijft u genieten van alle privileges die u gewend bent, zo spaart u sneller Miles en krijgt u een voorsprong naar een hoger deelnemersniveau.
MILES. Award Miles worden Miles. Als kaarthouder spaart u nog steeds sneller Miles, maar in het vernieuwde programma krijgt u veel meer mogelijkheden om deze Miles te gebruiken, zoals het boeken van elke beschikbare stoel bij KLM en Air France.
EXPERIENCE POINTS. De Level Miles en Qualifying Flights die bepalend zijn voor uw Flying Blue-deelnemersniveau worden vervangen door Experience Points (XP).
Als Flying Blue-American Express Platinum kaarthouder ontvangt u in het nieuwe programma jaarlijks 60 XP. Deze helpen u sneller naar een hoger Flying Blue-niveau door te groeien.
En alle andere privileges die u van ons gewend bent.
In de komende maanden informeren we u verder over de vernieuwingen van het programma in relatie tot uw kaart. Totdat het programma op 1 april 2018 actief wordt, blijft u gewoon gebruik maken van uw Flying Blue-American Express Platinum Card zoals u gewend bent en blijven de huidige voorwaarden van toepassing.
Goed nieuws. Met uw Flying Blue-American Express Platinum Card blijft u genieten van alle privileges die u gewend bent, zo spaart u sneller Miles en krijgt u een voorsprong naar een hoger deelnemersniveau.
MILES. Award Miles worden Miles. Als kaarthouder spaart u nog steeds sneller Miles, maar in het vernieuwde programma krijgt u veel meer mogelijkheden om deze Miles te gebruiken, zoals het boeken van elke beschikbare stoel bij KLM en Air France.
EXPERIENCE POINTS. De Level Miles en Qualifying Flights die bepalend zijn voor uw Flying Blue-deelnemersniveau worden vervangen door Experience Points (XP).
Als Flying Blue-American Express Platinum kaarthouder ontvangt u in het nieuwe programma jaarlijks 60 XP. Deze helpen u sneller naar een hoger Flying Blue-niveau door te groeien.
En alle andere privileges die u van ons gewend bent.
In de komende maanden informeren we u verder over de vernieuwingen van het programma in relatie tot uw kaart. Totdat het programma op 1 april 2018 actief wordt, blijft u gewoon gebruik maken van uw Flying Blue-American Express Platinum Card zoals u gewend bent en blijven de huidige voorwaarden van toepassing.
#591
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS, BRU, POA
Programs: Skyteam E+ (FB PfL), Latam Black, LH MM, Iberia plus, HH: Diamond, Marriott Bonvoy: Plat
Posts: 1,124
A new thing though is a perspective on more enhancements to come on FB AMEX.
#592
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Amsterdam
Programs: FB Platinum, Accor Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 13
So since it's based on revenue, I'm also assuming that if you book Economy and then select a free Economy Premium seat for free as a Platinum member benefit that you only get the 2 XP (domestic) for Economy, correct? What if you're Gold and pay the discounted seat selection; do you get 2 XP or 4 XP?
I haven't flown much since August, but in 2017 I have 96,380 level miles with quite a bit more coming, 46 level flights/segments. I had 12,970 level miles as carry over from 2016, 51,121 level miles from flights and 32,289 level miles from AMEX Platinum KL/AF Spend. As far as I can tell, I'll be getting screwed next year in terms of AMEX-based accrual only getting 60 XP or 20% of Platinum via AMEX as my current AMEX spend accounts for about 46% of level miles needed for Platinum...
Also, within Europe, what's the distinction between Domestic and Medium? It shows Medium as less than 2,000 miles. I technically won't have any true "domestic" flights from Amsterdam, lol... If all my European flights out of the Netherlands are Medium perhaps it's not so bad..
I haven't flown much since August, but in 2017 I have 96,380 level miles with quite a bit more coming, 46 level flights/segments. I had 12,970 level miles as carry over from 2016, 51,121 level miles from flights and 32,289 level miles from AMEX Platinum KL/AF Spend. As far as I can tell, I'll be getting screwed next year in terms of AMEX-based accrual only getting 60 XP or 20% of Platinum via AMEX as my current AMEX spend accounts for about 46% of level miles needed for Platinum...
Also, within Europe, what's the distinction between Domestic and Medium? It shows Medium as less than 2,000 miles. I technically won't have any true "domestic" flights from Amsterdam, lol... If all my European flights out of the Netherlands are Medium perhaps it's not so bad..
#593
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: Flying Blue, Accor Le Club, Hilton HHonors, Hertz Gold Plus, Avis Preferred
Posts: 476
So since it's based on revenue, I'm also assuming that if you book Economy and then select a free Economy Premium seat for free as a Platinum member benefit that you only get the 2 XP (domestic) for Economy, correct? What if you're Gold and pay the discounted seat selection; do you get 2 XP or 4 XP?
I haven't flown much since August, but in 2017 I have 96,380 level miles with quite a bit more coming, 46 level flights/segments. I had 12,970 level miles as carry over from 2016, 51,121 level miles from flights and 32,289 level miles from AMEX Platinum KL/AF Spend. As far as I can tell, I'll be getting screwed next year in terms of AMEX-based accrual only getting 60 XP or 20% of Platinum via AMEX as my current AMEX spend accounts for about 46% of level miles needed for Platinum...
Also, within Europe, what's the distinction between Domestic and Medium? It shows Medium as less than 2,000 miles. I technically won't have any true "domestic" flights from Amsterdam, lol... If all my European flights out of the Netherlands are Medium perhaps it's not so bad..
I haven't flown much since August, but in 2017 I have 96,380 level miles with quite a bit more coming, 46 level flights/segments. I had 12,970 level miles as carry over from 2016, 51,121 level miles from flights and 32,289 level miles from AMEX Platinum KL/AF Spend. As far as I can tell, I'll be getting screwed next year in terms of AMEX-based accrual only getting 60 XP or 20% of Platinum via AMEX as my current AMEX spend accounts for about 46% of level miles needed for Platinum...
Also, within Europe, what's the distinction between Domestic and Medium? It shows Medium as less than 2,000 miles. I technically won't have any true "domestic" flights from Amsterdam, lol... If all my European flights out of the Netherlands are Medium perhaps it's not so bad..
#594
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Amsterdam
Programs: FB Platinum, Accor Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 13
#595
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: Flying Blue, Accor Le Club, Hilton HHonors, Hertz Gold Plus, Avis Preferred
Posts: 476
#596
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Amsterdam
Programs: FB Platinum, Accor Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 13
Also, within Europe, what's the distinction between Domestic and Medium? It shows Medium as less than 2,000 miles. I technically won't have any true "domestic" flights from Amsterdam, lol... If all my European flights out of the Netherlands are Medium perhaps it's not so bad..
If those only count for 2 XP each, in 2017 under the new rules, I would've just had 300 XP. However, if these are considered "medium" at 5 XP then I'm not too worried..
#597
Join Date: May 2017
Location: LYS
Programs: FB Plat
Posts: 438
Does anyone know the distinction of "domestic" vs. "medium"? I'll have a lot of flights within Europe (ex: Amsterdam to Frankfurt/London/Stockholm) and some domestic connections in US. (ex: Atlanta to Tampa)
If those only count for 2 XP each, in 2017 under the new rules, I would've just had 300 XP. However, if these are considered "medium" at 5 XP then I'm not too worried..
If those only count for 2 XP each, in 2017 under the new rules, I would've just had 300 XP. However, if these are considered "medium" at 5 XP then I'm not too worried..
#598
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,063
Does anyone know the distinction of "domestic" vs. "medium"? I'll have a lot of flights within Europe (ex: Amsterdam to Frankfurt/London/Stockholm) and some domestic connections in US. (ex: Atlanta to Tampa)
If those only count for 2 XP each, in 2017 under the new rules, I would've just had 300 XP. However, if these are considered "medium" at 5 XP then I'm not too worried..
If those only count for 2 XP each, in 2017 under the new rules, I would've just had 300 XP. However, if these are considered "medium" at 5 XP then I'm not too worried..
#599
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: Flying Blue, Accor Le Club, Hilton HHonors, Hertz Gold Plus, Avis Preferred
Posts: 476
#600
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: Flying Blue, Accor Le Club, Hilton HHonors, Hertz Gold Plus, Avis Preferred
Posts: 476