Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current at maximum 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current at maximum 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#481
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,043
It does now though - as I showed in an earlier post an occasional long-haul J on KL (which often has very reasonable fares for even very far, 36XP, destinations) will *severely* reduce your grind under this new system.
For gold, having already attained silver, a 36XP round-trip J will now require only 22 EU flights (for a total of 24 that year) rather than 30. Even less if you make that long-haul J include a connecting flight. (The difference is more stark if you account for the newly increased requirement of 36 EU flights.)
Before that occasional long-haul J did exactly squat: that one flight would earn a tonne of miles, but if the rest of your flights are all 20%-earning EU flights those miles were effectively wasted as you still wouldn't reach the mileage threshold. Case in point: myself. This year between jan and sept I have earned about 1300 miles from 7 EU and 1 French domestic flights (would be 37 XP) and just over 15000 miles from one long-haul multi-city J trip (would be 87XP next year). That gets me nowhere with either miles (just over 16K) or segments (11) but qualifies me for silver with roll-over using XP (124).
For gold, having already attained silver, a 36XP round-trip J will now require only 22 EU flights (for a total of 24 that year) rather than 30. Even less if you make that long-haul J include a connecting flight. (The difference is more stark if you account for the newly increased requirement of 36 EU flights.)
Before that occasional long-haul J did exactly squat: that one flight would earn a tonne of miles, but if the rest of your flights are all 20%-earning EU flights those miles were effectively wasted as you still wouldn't reach the mileage threshold. Case in point: myself. This year between jan and sept I have earned about 1300 miles from 7 EU and 1 French domestic flights (would be 37 XP) and just over 15000 miles from one long-haul multi-city J trip (would be 87XP next year). That gets me nowhere with either miles (just over 16K) or segments (11) but qualifies me for silver with roll-over using XP (124).
Last edited by CyBeR; Nov 7, 2017 at 9:25 am
#482
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: Flying Blue, Accor Le Club, Hilton HHonors, Hertz Gold Plus, Avis Preferred
Posts: 476
Coming back to the Domestic XP earnings applying to US domestic flights, AirFrance told me the following on Twitter:
So according to those tweets, the XP rates shown by the calculator when looking at US domestic flights is wrong. Will see in a few days if the calculator is updated.
So according to those tweets, the XP rates shown by the calculator when looking at US domestic flights is wrong. Will see in a few days if the calculator is updated.
XXX, we are sorry for the confusion. Indeed, LAX-JFK will be considered as a domestic flight as well (2 XP in Economy).
#484
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE England
Programs: AF-KL Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 741
I don't think I missed this query in this rapidly growing thread but is it know how the Miles are calculated for non-AF/KL SkyTeam airlines?
Example from the FB Calculator: LHR-SGN, Vietnam Airlines, Business Booking Sub-Class D (125%), Flying Blue Platinum (100%):
Old system: (6,330 miles * 1.25) + (6,330 miles * 1.0) = 14243 Award Miles
New system: 15,878 Miles.
How is this calculated?
My understanding from this discussion was that the old system was being used apart from with AF/KL who are getting the Miles per Euro rates. Thanks
Example from the FB Calculator: LHR-SGN, Vietnam Airlines, Business Booking Sub-Class D (125%), Flying Blue Platinum (100%):
Old system: (6,330 miles * 1.25) + (6,330 miles * 1.0) = 14243 Award Miles
New system: 15,878 Miles.
How is this calculated?
My understanding from this discussion was that the old system was being used apart from with AF/KL who are getting the Miles per Euro rates. Thanks
#485
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 453
That will be my middle-finger saluting back at them .
#486
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 186
Please go ahead and explain, I'm (genuinely) intrigued to know how a segment runner, starting from Ivory, will be better off with the new system [as opposed to the current scheme]. I'm sure others will also be looking forward to hearing your own version (preferably without the examples of WWII and British Empire, though, as they are not relevant here). G
As someone already said, for people holding status this will not be that different, and, in many cases, better. Considering that just last Saturday I was disagreeing with someone who was saying that it would make sense for AFKLM to remove segments completely and to give status only to high spenders traveling on open, full fare tickets, sorry, but call it what you want, I'm calling it a win!
I'm in the good mood, I don't want to get dragged into yet another discussion this time with someone representing the opposite extreme, and I'm way over what I consider healthy Internet time, so I'm going to withdraw, just as the British have from Palestine and let you on keep discussing things.
Many happy returns and lots of experience to everyone!
#487
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, JetBlue Mosaic, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska MVP Gold.
Posts: 1,962
Well, I guess that seals the deal for me, and I'll move back my loyalty to Alaska Air so I can still earn miles from my Air France flights, and then I'll switch to AA in the US (or JetBlue for transcons even though they have a separate FFP).
That will be my middle-finger saluting back at them .
That will be my middle-finger saluting back at them .
#488
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,548
But the "severity" of that reduction needs to be placed into context
For gold, having already attained silver, a 36XP round-trip J will now require only 22 EU flights (for a total of 24 that year) rather than 30. Even less if you make that long-haul J include a connecting flight. (The difference is more stark if you account for the newly increased requirement of 36 EU flights.)
If I look to Millemiglia, a single AMS-FCO-SCL return in J (often available for little more than €1300) nets a total of around 49300 miles, which leaves you only ~700 miles short of Freccia Alata, the equivalent of FB Gold. So, Millemiglia gives you "FB Gold" equivalent for one judiciously-chosen J ticket, and a couple of shorthaul extra flights. Could be done on the basis of just 2 tickets. Regardless of whether you already hold status or not.
You wouldn't even get FB Gold with 2 AF La Premiere tickets (unless one or both was connecting from longhaul P to longhaul P at CDG)!!
That makes the FB "one J, plus 22 shorthauls" to Gold - but only if you already have Gold! - look rather bad.
#489
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 22
Hi Guys!
I've read the whole thread, so I don't miss something that may addressed my question already, but it seems that cases similar to mine were not yet discussed. Here it is:
- I am Platinum with expiry date on my card at 03/18
- this year I got some flights but not enough to take them into the picture here, so this is irrelevant
- I received my email from FB this morning - I assume they are "personalised" at least to be directed to specific status holders. Mine, under "Experience and Explore" reads: "To keep your Platinum level, you'll need to gain 300 XP between 1 January and 31 December 2018. (...).
This gets me superconfused, as - if I was to read it literally - it means that in such specific case, the Platinum status will be extended from March 31 expiry until the end of year.
Another scenario that would be logical but contradicts the email above, is that: I collect Segments/Level Miles till end of March, get downgraded to Gold, get my Segments/Level Miles transferred to XP and have another 9 months of the year to get to 300XP in order to "requalify" for Platinum.
Which one is it? Thanks in advance.
I've read the whole thread, so I don't miss something that may addressed my question already, but it seems that cases similar to mine were not yet discussed. Here it is:
- I am Platinum with expiry date on my card at 03/18
- this year I got some flights but not enough to take them into the picture here, so this is irrelevant
- I received my email from FB this morning - I assume they are "personalised" at least to be directed to specific status holders. Mine, under "Experience and Explore" reads: "To keep your Platinum level, you'll need to gain 300 XP between 1 January and 31 December 2018. (...).
This gets me superconfused, as - if I was to read it literally - it means that in such specific case, the Platinum status will be extended from March 31 expiry until the end of year.
Another scenario that would be logical but contradicts the email above, is that: I collect Segments/Level Miles till end of March, get downgraded to Gold, get my Segments/Level Miles transferred to XP and have another 9 months of the year to get to 300XP in order to "requalify" for Platinum.
Which one is it? Thanks in advance.
#490
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,548
They are governed by the earning percentages applicable to that individual partner. The earning percentage is then applied to the actual length of the sector in question (bearing in mind that some have a "minimum mileage" that kicks in for really short flights)
#491
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,548
- I received my email from FB this morning - I assume they are "personalised" at least to be directed to specific status holders. Mine, under "Experience and Explore" reads: "To keep your Platinum level, you'll need to gain 300 XP between 1 January and 31 December 2018. (...).
This gets me superconfused, as - if I was to read it literally - it means that in such specific case, the Platinum status will be extended from March 31 expiry until the end of year.
This gets me superconfused, as - if I was to read it literally - it means that in such specific case, the Platinum status will be extended from March 31 expiry until the end of year.
The new target, in XPs, is 300 for Platinum. You already have platinum, so you don't need to first worry about first collecting 100 to get Silver, or first collecting another 180 to get Gold.
You currently are Platinum, so your membership year won't change. Therefore, for as long as you remain Platinum, your membership year will stay aligned with the calendar year. Hence, you have from January 1 to 31 December to collect the necessary flying - albeit that from 1 April 2018, the "necessary flying" changes from 60 segments or 70k level miles, to a single blanket 300XP.
That your status was "extended" for an extra 3 months, to the end of the following March, has been a fixture of FB from the very beginning. This is to allow themselves enough time to wait for late or delayed flights to post, even after the end of the (currently, fixed for everybody) membership year; create the new cards reflecting everyone's new status, and send them out in time for the "expiry" of all status on 1 April.
Another scenario that would be logical but contradicts the email above, is that: I collect Segments/Level Miles till end of March, get downgraded to Gold, get my Segments/Level Miles transferred to XP and have another 9 months of the year to get to 300XP in order to "requalify" for Platinum.
Which one is it? Thanks in advance.
Which one is it? Thanks in advance.
There is a once-off shortcut for "maintaining" Platinum, though. Anyone who has 60k level miles [60k * 5XP = 300XP, the new Platinum threshold], or 43 segments [43 * 7XP = 301XP, exceeding the new Platinum threshold of 300XP] on 31 March 2018, *should* be upgraded to Platinum as a result of the one-off conversion of level miles/segments to XP using this (very beneficial) conversion formula.
Last edited by irishguy28; Nov 7, 2017 at 10:19 am
#492
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: ST E+, *G, some hotel gold...
Posts: 7,832
Well, if a "segment runner" will be starting from Ivory on the 1st of April 2018 I think this will mean that the current system did not really work for him either, and obviously neither will the new one. And for someone who may potentially consider joining FB? Of course, it will be much more difficult to achieve status. But are you a loser if you're not paying yet? This will affect them the same way as let's say AA changes affected me, in no way. If they won't like the rules, they won't join in.
But the "severity" of that reduction needs to be placed into context
Not entirely sure I understand what you mean by "a 36XP round-trip J will now require only 22 EU flights".
If I look to Millemiglia, a single AMS-FCO-SCL return in J (often available for little more than 1300) nets a total of around 49300 miles, which leaves you only ~700 miles short of Freccia Alata, the equivalent of FB Gold. So, Millemiglia gives you "FB Gold" equivalent for one judiciously-chosen J ticket, and a couple of shorthaul extra flights. Could be done on the basis of just 2 tickets. Regardless of whether you already hold status or not.
You wouldn't even get FB Gold with 2 AF La Premiere tickets (unless one or both was connecting from longhaul P to longhaul P at CDG)!!
That makes the FB "one J, plus 22 shorthauls" to Gold - but only if you already have Gold! - look rather bad.
If I look to Millemiglia, a single AMS-FCO-SCL return in J (often available for little more than 1300) nets a total of around 49300 miles, which leaves you only ~700 miles short of Freccia Alata, the equivalent of FB Gold. So, Millemiglia gives you "FB Gold" equivalent for one judiciously-chosen J ticket, and a couple of shorthaul extra flights. Could be done on the basis of just 2 tickets. Regardless of whether you already hold status or not.
You wouldn't even get FB Gold with 2 AF La Premiere tickets (unless one or both was connecting from longhaul P to longhaul P at CDG)!!
That makes the FB "one J, plus 22 shorthauls" to Gold - but only if you already have Gold! - look rather bad.
As for 36XP roundtrip and 22 Y flights - 36x2=72, so ~110XP to be raised on 22 flights per 5XP. It's a bit difference from before.
#493
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 177
I've just had a DM Twitter message from AF and they try to explain how great the new system is.
So instead of needing 30 segments for Gold it's now 36.
But take out the AMEX AF card, which I have, to help those XP points along.
Oh, and you could also stump up another 300 a year for some other card they mentioned to me.
Honestly, I'm waiting for the explanation as to how this is a better experience and especially so for a small business like me.
My only option is to do business 5 times a year from CDG to LHR and have that combined with my AmEx card to get my Gold each year. OK, that's only around 1500 worth of flights but I have other places I want to be than the UK 5 times a year.
So instead of needing 30 segments for Gold it's now 36.
But take out the AMEX AF card, which I have, to help those XP points along.
Oh, and you could also stump up another 300 a year for some other card they mentioned to me.
Honestly, I'm waiting for the explanation as to how this is a better experience and especially so for a small business like me.
My only option is to do business 5 times a year from CDG to LHR and have that combined with my AmEx card to get my Gold each year. OK, that's only around 1500 worth of flights but I have other places I want to be than the UK 5 times a year.
#495
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: ST E+, *G, some hotel gold...
Posts: 7,832
You currently are Platinum, so your membership year won't change. Therefore, for as long as you remain Platinum, your membership year will stay aligned with the calendar year. Hence, you have from January 1 to 31 December to collect the necessary flying - albeit that from 1 April 2018, the "necessary flying" changes from 60 segments or 70k level miles, to a single blanket 300XP.
That your status was "extended" for an extra 3 months, to the end of the following March, has been a fixture of FB from the very beginning. This is to allow themselves enough time to wait for late or delayed flights to post, even after the end of the (currently, fixed for everybody) membership year; create the new cards reflecting everyone's new status, and send them out in time for the "expiry" of all status on 1 April.
You cannot be downgraded in Status on 31 March. EVERYONE is still only 3 months into their current membership year. As such, NO-ONE CAN BE DOWNGRADED, AS NO-ONE IS AT THE END OF THEIR MEMBERSHIP YEAR ON THIS DATE. [Anyone whose status card expires on 1 April is someone who "Lost" that status already at the end-of-year level check that happens in FB every 31 December. Anyone losing status effective 1 April 2019 will lose it on the basis of the decision taken on 31 December 2017 based on their flights taken in calendar year 2017] Status downgrades will only happen at the end of the membership year; anyone failing to maintain status in calendar year 2018 will not be downgraded until 31 December 2018 (actually effective from 1 April 2019) so the "new" programme cannot force you to downgrade at this time.
That your status was "extended" for an extra 3 months, to the end of the following March, has been a fixture of FB from the very beginning. This is to allow themselves enough time to wait for late or delayed flights to post, even after the end of the (currently, fixed for everybody) membership year; create the new cards reflecting everyone's new status, and send them out in time for the "expiry" of all status on 1 April.
You cannot be downgraded in Status on 31 March. EVERYONE is still only 3 months into their current membership year. As such, NO-ONE CAN BE DOWNGRADED, AS NO-ONE IS AT THE END OF THEIR MEMBERSHIP YEAR ON THIS DATE. [Anyone whose status card expires on 1 April is someone who "Lost" that status already at the end-of-year level check that happens in FB every 31 December. Anyone losing status effective 1 April 2019 will lose it on the basis of the decision taken on 31 December 2017 based on their flights taken in calendar year 2017] Status downgrades will only happen at the end of the membership year; anyone failing to maintain status in calendar year 2018 will not be downgraded until 31 December 2018 (actually effective from 1 April 2019) so the "new" programme cannot force you to downgrade at this time.
1. FB IT probably just looked at 2017 status and assumed it will stay the same in 2018 with requalification for 2019
2. There will be no downgrade, but softlanding to Gold applies; with that in mind, in Apr-Dec 2018 jan0809 will need to get either 180XP to maintain Gold or 300XP to requalify to Platinum, minus of course whatever XP is gain from conversion of Jan-Apr activity
There is a once-off shortcut for "maintaining" Platinum, though. Anyone who has 60k level miles [60k * 5XP = 300XP, the new Platinum threshold], or 43 segments [43 * 7XP = 301XP, exceeding the new Platinum threshold of 300XP] on 31 March 2018, *should* be upgraded to Platinum as a result of the one-off conversion of level miles/segments to XP using this (very beneficial) conversion formula.
(which, in reference to our earlier debate, would allow the flights to be multiply counted ad absurdum - for silver, gold and plat AND then for at least one requal period if 60 sectors flown)