Old Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
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Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction

As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.

On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).

As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.

Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.

Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points

As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).

For flights between 1 January 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).

The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).

Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.

The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.

Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)

The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.

Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.

Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).

Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)

Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).

This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.

Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.

Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year

FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).

I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current at maximum 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP). This is only applicable in the first year.

Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)

Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
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Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018

Old Nov 7, 2017, 4:41 am
  #436  
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Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter
I understand how it is supposed to work, but the minimum is supposed
to be 7 XP for a qualifying flight, for this particular flight however Manage My Booking says 0.


You will earn:
150 Award Miles
150 Level Miles
0 XP
Two points:

a) the minimum XPs for a flight is not 7 - that is just the once-off, compromise value chosen for the purposes of "conversion", and is only relevant in relation to the conversion from number of Level Segments on 31 March 2018 and only relates to this single, once-off "transition" necessary to bridge you from the old to the new scheme. As per the table below, a single qualifying flight may earn as few as 2, or as many as 60, XPs. As such, the value of "Qualifying Flight = 7XPs" is only valid on the single date of 31 March 2018, and only for the purpose of determining which of the 2 current status "scores" (level miles, level segments) should be taken forward as your starting XP balance.

b) your flight occurs prior to 1 April 2018. As such, it earns level miles and 1 level segment - it does not earn XPs. Only flights taken from 1 April 2019 onwards earn XPs, and only flights with a date of this or later in the calculator will show non-zero XP values. Individual flights taken prior to this date do NOT earn XPs. Instead, they earn the amount of Level Miles indicated, plus a single level segment. On 31 March 2018, each of these totals will be converted using whichever XP amount works out higher (using the formula : 1,000 Level Miles = 5XP; 1 Level Segment = 7XP; it simply is not possible to assign an individual XP balance to any flight taken prior to 1 April 2019, as the XPs that will appear in your balance on that date are based on a conversion from either the Level Miles, or the level segments, and are not simply an "addition" of 7XP for every flight taken between January and March of 2018. [it could very well be that your Level Miles total gives you a higher XP after conversion than your Segment total does. In that case, the flight that earned 150 Level Miles would actually only contribute 0.75XP. So, for the calculator to work as you seem to think it should, the "XP" balance would have to say something like: "equivalent to 0.75 future XPs, if Level Mileage total on 31/03/18 works out to give the greater overall XP amount after conversion; otherwise, worth 7 future XPs, if instead the number of level segments on 31/03/18 works out to give the greater overall XP amount after conversion]

(To be honest, looking at the earning reported by you for this flight, it looks like that, after April, it would only earn 5 XPs maximum. However, they are NOT going to go back and calculate the "correct" values for each flight taken - instead, they just look at the totals of Level Miles and Level Segments, and use the (somewhat arbitrary, and which will benefit many, and penalise others) conversion rates, to get your starting XP total).
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Last edited by irishguy28; Nov 7, 2017 at 4:59 am
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 4:54 am
  #437  
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Originally Posted by SkyteamEP
Coming back to the Domestic XP earnings applying to US domestic flights, AirFrance told me the following on Twitter:



So according to those tweets, the XP rates shown by the calculator when looking at US domestic flights is wrong. Will see in a few days if the calculator is updated.
Originally Posted by SkyteamEP
To be honest, I don't really trust those tweets.
I would not either, I received confirmation that all flights within the same country are considered domestic.
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 4:56 am
  #438  
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Originally Posted by Bungus
I can't find any info on the new FB Amex rules.

Currently Platinum card holders get 8 qualifying flights which would convert to 56XPs

What happens to AF ticket purchases which gave qualifying miles, will we get miles + XPs?
Only Miles with purchases, XP when reaching your membership anniversary.
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 4:56 am
  #439  
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Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
They will remove the chart from existence - awards are to become revenue controlled in a vein similar to flight prices today.
In other words there will always be award space, but price will be dynamic.
The award chart was removed already several years ago.

The calculator is the only way to "consult" the mileage amount required, and while it still works off an underlying (though unpublished) chart, it only shows "starting from" values.

The move to total dynamic pricing of all seats available on flights, and the complete decoupling of prices from charts, means that any link to the old "chart" will be completely broken. On high-demand routes, the prices will be higher (as is the case with cash fares) - they don't price cash tickets based on a "chart" that only looks at zones, so the new pricing system will be similarly adaptive.

Last edited by irishguy28; Nov 7, 2017 at 5:02 am
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 5:06 am
  #440  
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Originally Posted by bodory
There are a lot of French FB Elite members earning their status thanks to regular commuting on Abonn fares.

I guess some won't be happy...
Its true that if you fly only domestic , you are screwed up

Also think about those flying domestic flights in Russia or USA , a SVO-VVO (4000 miles) or a JFK-LAX (2500 miles) are worth only 2XP , like the 300 miles of your ORY-BOD . So basically thats a joke

One way to get the ''best'' out of FB is to be flexible and schedule your high-earnings flights after you reached silver or gold
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 5:16 am
  #441  
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Originally Posted by joyu12
Indeed, i wonder how much a Corsican Resident fare will earn as they earn equivalent miles to Abonn fares, though they are usually booked into the A bucket (Though i have been rebooked into W, S and J buckets when changing tickets!). I wouldn't be surprised to see the 2XP per leg be applied though so i might pick up a Abonn card next year.
Corsican fare is just a fare among others and so they will earn 2 XPs for one domestic leg. The abonn card multiplier wont applied in this case.
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 5:20 am
  #442  
 
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Originally Posted by Q-STO
First of all, thanks to all the previous posts that tried to bring some clarity in this (at least for me) confusing revamp!

With these new rules I still wonder which customers AFKL want to attract and/or retain.
Looking at my own travel pattern:
- I have been Plat for 7 years now
- I have always qualified through number of segments - mainly ultra-short European flights: CDG-ZRH, CDG-BSL, CDG-MAN.
- Due to company budget restrictions, I must always choose the lowest Economy fare i.e. Light.

If I understand correctly, I will now need 300XP i.e. 60 medium-haul Y segments to maintain Platinum. Thats the same requirement as earlier.
However, from a revenue point of view, I guess I am not attractive to AFKL as I am travelling on dirt cheap fares.
So isnit contradictory to the goal of revenue-based earning or targetting premium travellers?
If you go back to the speculation thread you'll see a discussion on this very subject. FB focusing on premium PAX was what most on FT expected, with some arguing this made commercial sense, others saying that I'd didn't, and that they may then as well just close the whole programme down as people will move to low costs.

This was not what I expected and I'm pleasantly surprised. Considering how a corporation can screw things up, they did kind of nailed it:

- XP status system, once you get your head around it, and once they clarify couple of things, will be dead easy, simple, and focused on getting as many regular people as possible to fly AFKLM.

- huge devaluation in award miles. If you want to get your miles, you really have to pay for it

- they won't have to worry about discounted business class loophole, J error fares miles accumulation, etc. You can fly to Irkutsk as many times as you want now, it's not gonna get you far miles wise

- so when it comes to premium class - fly for the PRODUCT, not the miles. Which is something huge majority does anyway.

There are some downsides, it will be slightly more difficult to keep, or rather - to achieve status, but come on, considering what majority of people were expecting just last weekend, it's nothing!

To sum up - "miles people" got their devaluation, which they had expected anyway, and which does cut costs, "segment people" will continue to enjoy their smooth way of travel and won't move elsewhere.

They seemed to have killed 2 birds with one stone! I'm impressed.
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 5:35 am
  #443  
 
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Hello Everyone,
First I would like to thank all of you for the tremendous work since yesterday in trying to clarify the new FlyingBlue rules.
I read the whole thread but one point is still unclear to me (maybe I missed it) : what is the the number of XP gained in Domestic (France) and European flights based on the booking class, as "Premium Economy" does not formally exist anymore.

For domestic flights (in France)
Is S Class considered ad Premium Eco, thus giving per segment : 4 XP ( + 2 XP if abonn) ?

For intra-European flights :
What booking class is considered as Premium Economy ?
In the last months, I travelled in Y, B, U, K and H class.

Thank you for your help.
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 5:44 am
  #444  
 
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Originally Posted by skyhighlander
There are some downsides, it will be slightly more difficult to keep, or rather - to achieve status, but come on, considering what majority of people were expecting just last weekend, it's nothing!
It's only more difficult if you were qualifying on segments based on solely short-haul (EU or domestic) flights, or on miles in Y with full fare tickets. As soon as you also do long-haul it is either the same (owing to the slightly increased requirements) or easier (if you fly premium long-haul).

Example of how many EU flights you need to get to Silver (just to keep it easy), which today requires 15 segments:
Using EU short-haul only: 20
Using EU short-haul with 4 long-haul segments in Y at 10XP each: 12 (roughly the same as today at 16 segments total)
Using EU short-haul with 2 long-haul segments in J at 30XP each: 8
Using EU short-haul with 2 long-haul segments in F at 50XP each: 0

(I picked the middle long-haul number, Long 2, as an average.)

In each of those cases, you would still need 15 flights under the current system so it only becomes more difficult in the no-long-haul-at-all situation. Which makes commercial sense for AFKL.

The situation where you really get shafted with this new system is if you were qualifying on miles using full-fare (or close to full fare) tickets. There is no longer an allowance for that in terms of status earning, so full-fare tickets now only generate more award miles. But, if you were buying full fare for the level miles, you can now stop doing that and buy regular tickets instead which saves you a lot of money.
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 6:04 am
  #445  
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Originally Posted by michel1965
Hello Everyone,
First I would like to thank all of you for the tremendous work since yesterday in trying to clarify the new FlyingBlue rules.
I read the whole thread but one point is still unclear to me (maybe I missed it) : what is the the number of XP gained in Domestic (France) and European flights based on the booking class, as "Premium Economy" does not formally exist anymore.

For domestic flights (in France)
Is S Class considered ad Premium Eco, thus giving per segment : 4 XP ( + 2 XP if abonn) ?

For intra-European flights :
What booking class is considered as Premium Economy ?
In the last months, I travelled in Y, B, U, K and H class.

Thank you for your help.
there are still some unclear things. Indeed, for French domestic flights, they are Y only. But you can be sometimes booked under a business fare on a CDG-domestic sector when it is in connection with a long-haul in J. Same for medium haul which are Y and J only but can be booked under a premium Eco fare when in connection to a long-haul flight in PE.
At that stage, you should assume the worst case scenario, i.e. only Eco XP on domestic flights (2 XPs per leg, x2 if abonn) and only Eco on medium haul booked in PE fare (5 XPs per leg).
In case they grant PE XPs on medium haul, it will be 10 XPs/leg.

and to answer your question What booking class is considered as Premium Economy ? : its W.
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 6:07 am
  #446  
 
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Originally Posted by CyBeR
It's only more difficult if you were qualifying on segments based on solely short-haul (EU or domestic) flights, or on miles in Y with full fare tickets. As soon as you also do long-haul it is either the same (owing to the slightly increased requirements) or easier (if you fly premium long-haul).

Example of how many EU flights you need to get to Silver (just to keep it easy), which today requires 15 segments:
Using EU short-haul only: 20
Using EU short-haul with 4 long-haul segments in Y at 10XP each: 12 (roughly the same as today at 16 segments total)
Using EU short-haul with 2 long-haul segments in J at 30XP each: 8
Using EU short-haul with 2 long-haul segments in F at 50XP each: 0

(I picked the middle long-haul number, Long 2, as an average.)

In each of those cases, you would still need 15 flights under the current system so it only becomes more difficult in the no-long-haul-at-all situation. Which makes commercial sense for AFKL.

The situation where you really get shafted with this new system is if you were qualifying on miles using full-fare (or close to full fare) tickets. There is no longer an allowance for that in terms of status earning, so full-fare tickets now only generate more award miles. But, if you were buying full fare for the level miles, you can now stop doing that and buy regular tickets instead which saves you a lot of money.
Yup, you're right, it's almost a win-win situation.

For those who don't really care much about the miles, these changes are not bad at all, not bad at all.
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 6:15 am
  #447  
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Originally Posted by skyhighlander
To sum up - "miles people" got their devaluation, which they had expected anyway, and which does cut costs, "segment people" will continue to enjoy their smooth way of travel and won't move elsewhere.
In response to the charge that segment running is now officially dead on FB, someone said yesterday, quite a few pages back, that it isn't - it just means that segment runners will in future travel in Europe Business Class!!!!

As such....I don't see how you came to that cheery conclusion regarding segment runners....but it seems to indicate that you are a person that is a "miles person" and therefore only sees the detractions to people such as yourself.
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 6:18 am
  #448  
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Originally Posted by KLflyerRalph
Not necessarily. This is one of the more tricky implications that is currently being worked out. It'll depend on the IT.
I would love that to be true.

I will eat my hat if it turns out that way, though!!!

I really don't care about Award Miles, and often book tickets on partners that don't earn any Award Miles. If they all counted for status, that would be a huge surprise.
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 6:21 am
  #449  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
In response to the charge that segment running is now officially dead on FB, someone said yesterday, quite a few pages back, that it isn't - it just means that segment runners will in future travel in Europe Business Class!!!!
I think that was a very premature statement. Given that FB will from next year be completely segment-based, it is actually the *mileage run* that is dead. Segment runs are alive and well, though their make-up can now be varied to gain as many XP for as little money as possible. I.e., French domestic segments are likely out unless you happen to be exactly two points short.
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Old Nov 7, 2017, 6:21 am
  #450  
 
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I might have missed it reading through the topic. But how does it work for tickets bought but not paid in € but for example in . (I fly AMS-NWI a lot but booked on NWI-AMS tickets as in the UK the tickets are 50% of the price starting in AMS.
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