Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#1442
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: WORLD
Programs: Bonvoy Titanium, Flying Blue (KLM) Platinum, Oneworld (BA) Sapphire, *A (Aegean) Gold, IHG Spire RA,
Posts: 555
Ok I just booked a Delta ticket 006 ... AMS-BRU-ATL-SJO and return. All DL coded flights. Business class.
I can confirm the KLM site says this:
25797 Miles in totaal
0 Level Miles
105 XP
I have one question left. I have another DL 006 ticket but it has only AF and KL codes flights.
Those I'll probably loose on correct?
I can confirm the KLM site says this:
Flying Blue Miles
25797 Miles in totaal
0 Level Miles
105 XP
I have one question left. I have another DL 006 ticket but it has only AF and KL codes flights.
Those I'll probably loose on correct?
#1443
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
Programs: FlyingBlue
Posts: 51
Ok I just booked a Delta ticket 006 ... AMS-BRU-ATL-SJO and return. All DL coded flights. Business class.
I can confirm the KLM site says this:
25797 Miles in totaal
0 Level Miles
105 XP
I have one question left. I have another DL 006 ticket but it has only AF and KL codes flights.
Those I'll probably loose on correct?
I can confirm the KLM site says this:
Flying Blue Miles
25797 Miles in totaal
0 Level Miles
105 XP
I have one question left. I have another DL 006 ticket but it has only AF and KL codes flights.
Those I'll probably loose on correct?
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking?
#1444
Join Date: May 2012
Location: AMS
Programs: BA KL LH Hilton Marriott
Posts: 1,230
I think (s)he is saying that flights operated by KL/AF will earn fewer miles than the DL flights in the example. Which would be correct if I am not mistaken.
"DL coded" and "KL coded" is of course not the same as "DL metal" or "KL metal" so maybe that is what the question is about. To be honest I haven't gone into the depths of how that (i.e. flying on KL metal with for example a DL or CZ code) will work but many others in this thread have.
"DL coded" and "KL coded" is of course not the same as "DL metal" or "KL metal" so maybe that is what the question is about. To be honest I haven't gone into the depths of how that (i.e. flying on KL metal with for example a DL or CZ code) will work but many others in this thread have.
#1445
#1446
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: WORLD
Programs: Bonvoy Titanium, Flying Blue (KLM) Platinum, Oneworld (BA) Sapphire, *A (Aegean) Gold, IHG Spire RA,
Posts: 555
I think (s)he is saying that flights operated by KL/AF will earn fewer miles than the DL flights in the example. Which would be correct if I am not mistaken.
"DL coded" and "KL coded" is of course not the same as "DL metal" or "KL metal" so maybe that is what the question is about. To be honest I haven't gone into the depths of how that (i.e. flying on KL metal with for example a DL or CZ code) will work but many others in this thread have.
"DL coded" and "KL coded" is of course not the same as "DL metal" or "KL metal" so maybe that is what the question is about. To be honest I haven't gone into the depths of how that (i.e. flying on KL metal with for example a DL or CZ code) will work but many others in this thread have.
I still have 1 006 Delta ticket; but it has just AF/KL marketed flights. I'm curious how this will credit. KLAF just have access to the price? Did anyone have a flight like this already?
#1447
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,918
Of course they have access to the price (they set up the price as it is AFKL-coded flights). They get all the money from DL. Ticket stock doesn’t matter.
#1448
Join Date: May 2012
Location: AMS
Programs: BA KL LH Hilton Marriott
Posts: 1,230
#1449
Join Date: May 2014
Location: AMS
Programs: FB Platinum | A3 Gold | BA Silver
Posts: 58
Called the Platinum line and they said there is nothing that they can do except write a "complaint" to the Customer Care department which they did in this case on my behalf. I will see how it pans out and keep you updated. I don't need the XP right now as I already re-qualified for Platinum. But it is nice to have as rollover because you never know how your travel pattern goes in the future.
1. stated my Level Miles prior to the change
2. calculated the Level Miles I would have earned for the flights that were credited under the new system already
3. converted the total Level Miles to XP
4. subtracted the XP already awarded for the flights.
5. credited the difference (this was 14 XP in my case)
We all know that if we have a non KLAF ticket (in my case Delta) with marketed flights by DL too we earn miles the old way. This is shown correct in myKLM too. As I get 27000 miles. The ticket was about 1600 minus some fees I would only get 10000 miles if it's KL ticket and marketed.
I still have 1 006 Delta ticket; but it has just AF/KL marketed flights. I'm curious how this will credit. KLAF just have access to the price? Did anyone have a flight like this already?
I still have 1 006 Delta ticket; but it has just AF/KL marketed flights. I'm curious how this will credit. KLAF just have access to the price? Did anyone have a flight like this already?
Ticket is issued on 074 stock and the whole itinerary includes 7 legs, 4 of which are Long 2 legs. The other 3 legs are Delta "First" class legs... two are between USA and Canada and 1 is domestic. These "First" class legs show on the KLM App and Website as "Delta Premium Select" (fare classes are a mix between F and P).
2 of the Long 2 legs are KL marketed flights which I booked like that on purpose not realising that the new earning structure would apply to my trip....
KLM calculates for me: 30109 Miles and 126 XP. I know for a fact that the 126 XP is wrong because just the 4 Long 2 flights would net me 120 XP... according to the "flight type simulator" the domestic Delta First flight should earn at least 6 XP and the two USA-Canada earn 15XP each as well... so they are shorting 30 XP, right?
The DL coded and operated flights should net me around 27000 award miles based on gcmap distances, fare classes and my platinum bonus. The KL flights, under the old system, would have netted me around 16000 award miles using the same logic, but now they are only good for about 3000 miles if KLM is calculating the miles correctly. A hard way to learn a lesson.
For my future flying in the business cabin I will definitely look for DL marketed flights... for economy it is a different story because if you plan to upgrade I think for DL marketed, KL operated flights you will need to buy up to at least M to be able to upgrade to WBC. Will be able to confirm this soon on an upcoming DL marketed, KL operated flight in economy.
Last edited by foxtwo; Apr 15, 2018 at 9:36 am Reason: structure
#1450
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 484
So while I was away on a work trip (= no flyertalk :P) I got a nice e-mail from KLM with the following content (summarised):
1. stated my Level Miles prior to the change
2. calculated the Level Miles I would have earned for the flights that were credited under the new system already
3. converted the total Level Miles to XP
4. subtracted the XP already awarded for the flights.
5. credited the difference (this was 14 XP in my case)
1. stated my Level Miles prior to the change
2. calculated the Level Miles I would have earned for the flights that were credited under the new system already
3. converted the total Level Miles to XP
4. subtracted the XP already awarded for the flights.
5. credited the difference (this was 14 XP in my case)
The correct miles were 1200, I received 644 already, so was missing 556. I'm sure I wrote 556 in the message, but they credited 566
#1451
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS, BRU, POA
Programs: Skyteam E+ (FB PfL), Latam Black, LH MM, Iberia plus, HH: Diamond, Marriott Bonvoy: Plat
Posts: 1,119
#1452
Join Date: Aug 2016
Programs: Flying Blue, SPG, Marriott Rewards, Delta SkyMiles
Posts: 107
That's it, no other thing.
I'm assuming there's no way they can cheat me out of 5 XP (flight was SFO-JFK on Mar 30 and was posted with 2 XP at the beginning of April, I should have gotten 7)...
#1454
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posts: 12,481
DL Comfort+ is not premium economy. DL premium economy is Delta Premium Select which is only available on A350 currently.
#1455
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 905
Thanks for the clarification. It came up on matrix/Google from a PE search. It's odd , though, that I can earn 10XP on Dublin-Copenhagen via AMS for €70 but only 2XP for flying about 3,000 miles across the USA, at $300-350.