Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
Jan 30, 2018, 3:13 am
#978
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indonesia
Programs: Flying Blue PE, Garuda FF Gold, Shangr-La Gold, KrisFlyer SQ
Posts: 79
AMEX not really interested to maintaining relationship
I have the AMEX FB platinum card, I called AMEX NL about the fact that with the diminishing benefits with the new system of XP points the card is not meeting my expectations anymore, also considering the annual fee. I would have netted 130 XP's in acquired level miles if my expenditures in 2018 would be roughly the same as in 2017, and now I will only get 60 XP's in the new program. The suggestion of the sales person was just to downgrade to Silver, for a merely 35 euro's per year. Which I probably will do on the last day of March. Or quit AMEX all together.
Jan 30, 2018, 3:34 am
#979
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 493
I have the AMEX FB platinum card, I called AMEX NL about the fact that with the diminishing benefits with the new system of XP points the card is not meeting my expectations anymore, also considering the annual fee. I would have netted 130 XP's in acquired level miles if my expenditures in 2018 would be roughly the same as in 2017, and now I will only get 60 XP's in the new program. The suggestion of the sales person was just to downgrade to Silver, for a merely 35 euro's per year. Which I probably will do on the last day of March. Or quit AMEX all together.
Jan 30, 2018, 6:26 am
#980
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS, BRU, POA
Programs: Skyteam E+ (FB PfL), Latam Black, LH MM, Iberia plus, HH: Diamond, Marriott Bonvoy: Plat
Posts: 1,121
Not with the FB AMEX Plat. card in NL/F, at least I never heard of anybody who was able to make it happen. (There were some examples with the Gold one in France though).
Jan 30, 2018, 6:51 am
#981
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 493
Jan 30, 2018, 12:16 pm
#982
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,922
Jan 31, 2018, 9:58 am
#983
Join Date: Jan 2018
Programs: Flyingblue
Posts: 3
Good day everyone,
I have a question:
Am I correctly understanding that starting from April, it will no longer reasonable to sort of fly in Business Class within Europe to gain miles. The only reason to do so is to keep the level. As I have calculated my primary route in business will give me 180 XP if I fly 3 times return a year. (LUX-CDG-SVO)
Because as per my example bellow, the drop in miles is more than 5 times if we compare March and April, while the price is kept at the same level.
Return LUX-CDG-SVO Before 1 April At fixed price of 622 Euro gives 11400 miles (checked 9 - 12 March)
Return LUX-CDG-SVO After 1 April At fixed price of 622 Euro gives 2226 miles (checked 20 - 23 April)
This was a perfect solution for me, to keep my level at least at Gold,and if I flew 3 times a year in business at similar to this price level, I also actually earned a free Return in Economy for miles, if booked at the right time on the same route.
Seams from April, it will no longer be a solution. Am I right? What people who are Europe Business Class travellers are thinking to do from April?
I have a question:
Am I correctly understanding that starting from April, it will no longer reasonable to sort of fly in Business Class within Europe to gain miles. The only reason to do so is to keep the level. As I have calculated my primary route in business will give me 180 XP if I fly 3 times return a year. (LUX-CDG-SVO)
Because as per my example bellow, the drop in miles is more than 5 times if we compare March and April, while the price is kept at the same level.
Return LUX-CDG-SVO Before 1 April At fixed price of 622 Euro gives 11400 miles (checked 9 - 12 March)
Return LUX-CDG-SVO After 1 April At fixed price of 622 Euro gives 2226 miles (checked 20 - 23 April)
This was a perfect solution for me, to keep my level at least at Gold,and if I flew 3 times a year in business at similar to this price level, I also actually earned a free Return in Economy for miles, if booked at the right time on the same route.
Seams from April, it will no longer be a solution. Am I right? What people who are Europe Business Class travellers are thinking to do from April?
Jan 31, 2018, 11:04 am
#984
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 484
Good day everyone,
I have a question:
Am I correctly understanding that starting from April, it will no longer reasonable to sort of fly in Business Class within Europe to gain miles. The only reason to do so is to keep the level. As I have calculated my primary route in business will give me 180 XP if I fly 3 times return a year. (LUX-CDG-SVO)
Because as per my example bellow, the drop in miles is more than 5 times if we compare March and April, while the price is kept at the same level.
Return LUX-CDG-SVO Before 1 April At fixed price of 622 Euro gives 11400 miles (checked 9 - 12 March)
Return LUX-CDG-SVO After 1 April At fixed price of 622 Euro gives 2226 miles (checked 20 - 23 April)
This was a perfect solution for me, to keep my level at least at Gold,and if I flew 3 times a year in business at similar to this price level, I also actually earned a free Return in Economy for miles, if booked at the right time on the same route.
Seams from April, it will no longer be a solution. Am I right? What people who are Europe Business Class travellers are thinking to do from April?
I have a question:
Am I correctly understanding that starting from April, it will no longer reasonable to sort of fly in Business Class within Europe to gain miles. The only reason to do so is to keep the level. As I have calculated my primary route in business will give me 180 XP if I fly 3 times return a year. (LUX-CDG-SVO)
Because as per my example bellow, the drop in miles is more than 5 times if we compare March and April, while the price is kept at the same level.
Return LUX-CDG-SVO Before 1 April At fixed price of 622 Euro gives 11400 miles (checked 9 - 12 March)
Return LUX-CDG-SVO After 1 April At fixed price of 622 Euro gives 2226 miles (checked 20 - 23 April)
This was a perfect solution for me, to keep my level at least at Gold,and if I flew 3 times a year in business at similar to this price level, I also actually earned a free Return in Economy for miles, if booked at the right time on the same route.
Seams from April, it will no longer be a solution. Am I right? What people who are Europe Business Class travellers are thinking to do from April?
In terms of miles, assuming the lowest economy used to earn 20% of 750 per segment whilst EBC was 200 (250?). That's essentially a 10 times increase for EBC in the old scheme. The new scheme factors price, which like above could be only 3x the difference, or more or less, irrespective of class. So in short, what you've said is correct EBC good for XP, no great advantage for miles...
Jan 31, 2018, 2:31 pm
#985
Join Date: Jan 2018
Programs: Flyingblue
Posts: 3
In terms of XP, a cheap EBC return with 4 segments is around 3 times the price of the cheapest economy return (for me at least, EUR 350 vs EUR 110), and earns exactly three times the XP. So for purely getting XP, EBC is a less time-consuming possibility.
In terms of miles, assuming the lowest economy used to earn 20% of 750 per segment whilst EBC was 200 (250?). That's essentially a 10 times increase for EBC in the old scheme. The new scheme factors price, which like above could be only 3x the difference, or more or less, irrespective of class. So in short, what you've said is correct EBC good for XP, no great advantage for miles...
In terms of miles, assuming the lowest economy used to earn 20% of 750 per segment whilst EBC was 200 (250?). That's essentially a 10 times increase for EBC in the old scheme. The new scheme factors price, which like above could be only 3x the difference, or more or less, irrespective of class. So in short, what you've said is correct EBC good for XP, no great advantage for miles...
Jan 31, 2018, 5:21 pm
#986
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, JetBlue Mosaic, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska MVP Gold.
Posts: 1,962
Same. I put a high amount of spend on my Platinum AFKL card (I won't specify, but well north of 15k/mo) and they won't waive it.
Jan 31, 2018, 7:20 pm
#987
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Bear in mind, though, that this only apply if you fly AF/KL. If you use SU to fly to SVO and other ST partners elsewhere in Europe (AZ, OK, RO, ...), earnings will still be distance+booking class-based even after April. Clearly, the range of routes available with ST partners other than AF/KL in Europe is fairly limited but it might work for some.
To be honest, though, you were benefiting from a route which was among those at the top end of the lucrative range on a EUR to miles ratio. Most routes in Europe would have earned less.
Feb 1, 2018, 8:03 am
#988
Join Date: Jan 2018
Programs: Flyingblue
Posts: 3
That depends. If you tend to fly on expensive, fully flexible fares, you might end up better off miles-wise. If you tend to fly on deeply discounted business fares, then clearly the earnings will be badly slashed. The same is true for long-haul business class BTW although less spectacularly so than within Europe.
Bear in mind, though, that this only apply if you fly AF/KL. If you use SU to fly to SVO and other ST partners elsewhere in Europe (AZ, OK, RO, ...), earnings will still be distance+booking class-based even after April. Clearly, the range of routes available with ST partners other than AF/KL in Europe is fairly limited but it might work for some.
To be honest, though, you were benefiting from a route which was among those at the top end of the lucrative range on a EUR to miles ratio. Most routes in Europe would have earned less.
Bear in mind, though, that this only apply if you fly AF/KL. If you use SU to fly to SVO and other ST partners elsewhere in Europe (AZ, OK, RO, ...), earnings will still be distance+booking class-based even after April. Clearly, the range of routes available with ST partners other than AF/KL in Europe is fairly limited but it might work for some.
To be honest, though, you were benefiting from a route which was among those at the top end of the lucrative range on a EUR to miles ratio. Most routes in Europe would have earned less.
But even to the general extent the Program will get so much worse. I really do have fingers crossed, that before April they will provide more information, with more good news, rather than bad.
Feb 1, 2018, 10:32 am
#989
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE England
Programs: AF-KL Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 755
Has anyone found flights that will earn them more Miles (in the new FB scheme) than will earn Award Miles (in the old FB scheme)?
I purchased a rtn Business Class KLM from WAW to China (remember the cheap tickets that were discussed a few weeks ago) for May/June and I'll get about 7400 Miles but would have earned about 33000 Award Miles. Likewise, I have rtn LHR to WAW also KLM Buisness which will give about 5300 Miles, which is about 50% less than the Award Miles would be earned if I would travel under the old system.
I know there are winners and losers in the Flying Blue changes and I can see this for the Level Miles-to-XP changes but I have not found a case when better off in the change from Award Miles to Miles. The new Miles are pure price based, but the ticket price was indirectly accounted for in Award Miles via the Cabin Sub-Booking Class earn percentage, so the old system was in part revenue based (amoungst other factors).
I purchased a rtn Business Class KLM from WAW to China (remember the cheap tickets that were discussed a few weeks ago) for May/June and I'll get about 7400 Miles but would have earned about 33000 Award Miles. Likewise, I have rtn LHR to WAW also KLM Buisness which will give about 5300 Miles, which is about 50% less than the Award Miles would be earned if I would travel under the old system.
I know there are winners and losers in the Flying Blue changes and I can see this for the Level Miles-to-XP changes but I have not found a case when better off in the change from Award Miles to Miles. The new Miles are pure price based, but the ticket price was indirectly accounted for in Award Miles via the Cabin Sub-Booking Class earn percentage, so the old system was in part revenue based (amoungst other factors).
Feb 1, 2018, 12:57 pm
#990
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Paris, France
Programs: Flying Blue (LTPE) All (Gold)
Posts: 1,519
...Bear in mind, though, that this only apply if you fly AF/KL. If you use SU to fly to SVO and other ST partners elsewhere in Europe (AZ, OK, RO, ...), earnings will still be distance+booking class-based even after April. Clearly, the range of routes available with ST partners other than AF/KL in Europe is fairly limited but it might work for some...