Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current at maximum 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current at maximum 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#736
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,043
The calculator is broken in many, many ways.
But if you use gcmap.com to get the distances, they're usually correct to within about 50 miles or so, and then you can do whatever earning calculation applies to you yourself. The result should be about correct, unless you're wondering whether or not a certain flight will get you just over a threshold or not.
But if you use gcmap.com to get the distances, they're usually correct to within about 50 miles or so, and then you can do whatever earning calculation applies to you yourself. The result should be about correct, unless you're wondering whether or not a certain flight will get you just over a threshold or not.
#737
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SJC / SFO
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 769
Regarding Delta, read this: http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...lantic-flights
Looks like Delta is changing their class policy indeed, as on TATL flights where you had "domestic first class" seats sold as "business class" now show as "premium economy" instead (just TATL flights, not domestic routes). Maybe FB calculator actually leaked something?
Looks like Delta is changing their class policy indeed, as on TATL flights where you had "domestic first class" seats sold as "business class" now show as "premium economy" instead (just TATL flights, not domestic routes). Maybe FB calculator actually leaked something?
#738
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,379
I just spoke to AMEX NL - their only offer is 50% off the annual card fee (even though I put at least 15k on the card this year), which I find very disappointing and not worth the money at all. I'll call them again in a while to see if they changed their mind, but if not I'm gone, and I'll go for the free green card I get from my bank.
#739
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAX, TPE, NYC
Programs: TK Miles&Smiles, AAdvantage, Flying Blue
Posts: 295
excess level flights by 31Dec17
I have a question about excess level flights (segments).
Current system suggests that, my excess level flights (segments) will be carried over to the next year.
I've recently hit Silver, but won't be able to hit Gold by 12/31. Will those excess segments (16th, 17th, 18th... etc.) be kept to next year?
How will they convert to XP? 7XP per segments?
Current system suggests that, my excess level flights (segments) will be carried over to the next year.
I've recently hit Silver, but won't be able to hit Gold by 12/31. Will those excess segments (16th, 17th, 18th... etc.) be kept to next year?
How will they convert to XP? 7XP per segments?
#740
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: France
Programs: FB Plat for Life, UAMP, BAEC, Accor ALL Platinum, Marriott silver, Hilton, Meli silver.
Posts: 3,104
I have a question about excess level flights (segments).
Current system suggests that, my excess level flights (segments) will be carried over to the next year.
I've recently hit Silver, but won't be able to hit Gold by 12/31. Will those excess segments (16th, 17th, 18th... etc.) be kept to next year?
How will they convert to XP? 7XP per segments?
Current system suggests that, my excess level flights (segments) will be carried over to the next year.
I've recently hit Silver, but won't be able to hit Gold by 12/31. Will those excess segments (16th, 17th, 18th... etc.) be kept to next year?
How will they convert to XP? 7XP per segments?
Only level miles are.
#741
I just spoke to AMEX NL - their only offer is 50% off the annual card fee (even though I put at least 15k on the card this year), which I find very disappointing and not worth the money at all. I'll call them again in a while to see if they changed their mind, but if not I'm gone, and I'll go for the free green card I get from my bank.
Cheers!
#742
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,379
In the past I was able to get 20k miles (with much less spending) just for giving them a call - I was expecting way more this time, but maybe they'll up the offers come April. I wasn't speaking to a retention specialist though as my card number wasn't recognized for some reason, so that may have played a role too.
#743
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,550
In the past I was able to get 20k miles (with much less spending) just for giving them a call - I was expecting way more this time, but maybe they'll up the offers come April. I wasn't speaking to a retention specialist though as my card number wasn't recognized for some reason, so that may have played a role too.
#744
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,379
I doubt that - I've played that trick once in the three years I've had the card and stuck with it afterwards, and this year I actually put over 25k (I checked again) on the card, so I'm surprised they'd be willing to let go this easily.
#745
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,831
I've never done anything like this. What do you do, you just call the normal call centre and tell them "please waive my fees"? Or you pretend to cancel the card and wait if they make an offer? Or you call a specific department at AMEX?
I've put a - what I believe - is a significant amount of money on the card, and I realise that the 570 EUR that they charge me is quite a steep price.
I've put a - what I believe - is a significant amount of money on the card, and I realise that the 570 EUR that they charge me is quite a steep price.
#746
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Programs: Flying Blue (AF/KL)
Posts: 4,711
From my experience, it depends on the card you have. From what I have read, if you have a co-branded Silver or Gold card, they can offer you a (full) discount on the fees.
with the platinum card we have never gotten any discount, but do get extra miles on purchases for 3 months & bonus miles. Has anyone with the platinum card managed got a reduction on the fees?
with the platinum card we have never gotten any discount, but do get extra miles on purchases for 3 months & bonus miles. Has anyone with the platinum card managed got a reduction on the fees?
Last edited by Gajan; Nov 20, 2017 at 11:11 pm Reason: Typo
#747
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,794
From my experience, it depends on the card you have. From what I have read, if you have a co-branded Silver or Gold card, they can offer you a (full) discount on the fees.
with the platinum card we have never gotten any discount, but do get extra miles on purchases for 3 months & bonus miles. Has anyone with the platinum card managed got a reduction on the fees?
with the platinum card we have never gotten any discount, but do get extra miles on purchases for 3 months & bonus miles. Has anyone with the platinum card managed got a reduction on the fees?
So I’d be curious to know if some other posters here have succeeded to have the fee waived for the French gold FB Amex.
Last edited by Goldorak; Nov 21, 2017 at 12:51 pm
#748
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS, BRU, POA
Programs: Skyteam E+ (FB PfL), Latam Black, LH MM, Iberia plus, HH: Diamond, Marriott Bonvoy: Plat
Posts: 1,083
From my experience, it depends on the card you have. From what I have read, if you have a co-branded Silver or Gold card, they can offer you a (full) discount on the fees.
with the platinum card we have never gotten any discount, but do get extra miles on purchases for 3 months & bonus miles. Has anyone with the platinum card managed got a reduction on the fees?
with the platinum card we have never gotten any discount, but do get extra miles on purchases for 3 months & bonus miles. Has anyone with the platinum card managed got a reduction on the fees?
I said for me there is much less value for the card thus they should reduce the fee. They said there is no intention to do anything like that but that they are expecting some enhancements in the first quarter of 2018. Also, they confirmed many card holders are complaining. Let's hope for the best.