Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
Nov 7, 2017, 6:24 am
#451
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,055
Non-EUR will be converted to EUR at the time of purchase for the mileage calculation. (Or the time of earning -- I forget. In anycase a conversion is done. It's in here somewhere.)
Nov 7, 2017, 6:24 am
#452
Join Date: May 2015
Location: RBA / TBS
Programs: AF Gold / Accor Gold / Hilton Diamond / TP Silver / A3 Gold
Posts: 2,741
It will be converted to euros then this amount will give your amount of miles
Nov 7, 2017, 6:32 am
#453
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
I think that was a very premature statement. Given that FB will from next year be completely segment-based, it is actually the *mileage run* that is dead. Segment runs are alive and well, though their make-up can now be varied to gain as many XP for as little money as possible. I.e., French domestic segments are likely out unless you happen to be exactly two points short.
Two distinct ways of qualification have been "combined" into one.
Previously, a segment was earned regardless of how cheap a ticket was, how far was flown, or whether you flew in discount basic economy, or in La Premičre. This meant that "segment running" favoured booking the cheapest basic ticket that counted as a segment.
In contrast, level miles were accumulated at a far, far greater pace depending on the price/distance/fare of the ticket. This meant that "mileage qualification" favoured those booking premium cabins and/or very long segments.
The "merged" system still favours those booking premium cabins and/or very long segments - because the value of the "segment" is now weighted.
So, while technically it is true that the number of segments is what gets you status now, you no longer get the same "segment value" per flight.
As such, technically you could say that everyone is segment running - but to be honest, you get far greater reward for booking premium cabins (the multiple on the XP earning is in most cases a greater multiple than the corresponding difference in fares), so this is actually a push to make you "mileage run" instead. The XP system DOESN'T encourage you to focus on booking the cheapest available ticket - certainly not as the previous "any qualifying flight counts as 1 segment" did". In that system, a cheap domestic hop on HOP! (at least if you are not French) was just as qualification-worthy as, say, a La Premičre flight from LAX to CDG. NOT ANY MORE!!!!
Nov 7, 2017, 6:36 am
#454
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
Nov 7, 2017, 6:40 am
#455
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,055
Well, yes and no.
Two distinct ways of qualification have been "combined" into one.
Previously, a segment was earned regardless of how cheap a ticket was, how far was flown, or whether you flew in discount basic economy, or in La Premičre. This meant that "segment running" favoured booking the cheapest basic ticket that counted as a segment.
In contrast, level miles were accumulated at a far, far greater pace depending on the price/distance/fare of the ticket. This meant that "mileage qualification" favoured those booking premium cabins and/or very long segments.
The "merged" system still favours those booking premium cabins and/or very long segments - because the value of the "segment" is now weighted.
So, while technically it is true that the number of segments is what gets you status now, you no longer get the same "segment value" per flight.
As such, technically you could say that everyone is segment running - but to be honest, you get far greater reward for booking premium cabins (the multiple on the XP earning is in most cases a greater multiple than the corresponding difference in fares), so this is actually a push to make you "mileage run" instead. The XP system DOESN'T encourage you to focus on booking the cheapest available ticket - certainly not as the previous "any qualifying flight counts as 1 segment" did".
Two distinct ways of qualification have been "combined" into one.
Previously, a segment was earned regardless of how cheap a ticket was, how far was flown, or whether you flew in discount basic economy, or in La Premičre. This meant that "segment running" favoured booking the cheapest basic ticket that counted as a segment.
In contrast, level miles were accumulated at a far, far greater pace depending on the price/distance/fare of the ticket. This meant that "mileage qualification" favoured those booking premium cabins and/or very long segments.
The "merged" system still favours those booking premium cabins and/or very long segments - because the value of the "segment" is now weighted.
So, while technically it is true that the number of segments is what gets you status now, you no longer get the same "segment value" per flight.
As such, technically you could say that everyone is segment running - but to be honest, you get far greater reward for booking premium cabins (the multiple on the XP earning is in most cases a greater multiple than the corresponding difference in fares), so this is actually a push to make you "mileage run" instead. The XP system DOESN'T encourage you to focus on booking the cheapest available ticket - certainly not as the previous "any qualifying flight counts as 1 segment" did".
Either way, since neither segment run nor mileage run are now accurate, I suggest we re-term this concept to something involving the word Experience. For example, Experience Gathering Run. XGR.
Nov 7, 2017, 6:49 am
#457
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 186
In response to the charge that segment running is now officially dead on FB, someone said yesterday, quite a few pages back, that it isn't - it just means that segment runners will in future travel in Europe Business Class!!!!
As such....I don't see how you came to that cheery conclusion regarding segment runners....but it seems to indicate that you are a person that is a "miles person" and therefore only sees the detractions to people such as yourself.
As such....I don't see how you came to that cheery conclusion regarding segment runners....but it seems to indicate that you are a person that is a "miles person" and therefore only sees the detractions to people such as yourself.
I know there is some confusion around, some activity on social media too, but people will soon realise that the "cheap" segment runners are the clear winners here and should be celebrating. Having been already sentenced by many to lounge exile they've not only survived, they've become the only ones left. As someone already pointed out - miles are dead.
No one could have expected better conditions, but considering what we had thought was in the cards, it's the corporate, business, full fare premium buyers that have much more reasons to be disappointed.
Nov 7, 2017, 6:57 am
#458
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
It used to be that 30 of these segments would get you to Gold - which is how I used to qualify for FB Gold. Regardless of whether you were Ivory, Silver, or Gold already, you only needed 30 segments per year to get/maintain Gold.
In future, if you are lucky enough to already have Gold, or have Silver, you will instead require 36 of these segments to get/maintain Gold - a 20% increase. [36 sectors time 5XP for an economy short international flight gives 180XP, the amount necessary for Gold for those already with Silver or Gold]
However, if you are starting from Ivory, you will first need to collect 20 of these segments (to achieve Silver, at which point you lose all 20 segments), and then add another 36 segments to get to Gold - a total of 56 segments, an 86% increase.
If you were a segment runner that relied also on domestic sectors, the number of segments required will raise even further.
Given that "segment runners" shouldn't have been relying on longhaul and/or business sectors as an ongoing strategy - an occasional one, of course, was useful, but the real "value" of these segments was their greater level mileage earning - so for someone aiming for qualification by segments there was no real reason to buy a far-more expensive segment - to say that "but if you fly longhaul and/or business, segment qualifying gets easier!" is to miss the point entirely.
Nov 7, 2017, 6:58 am
#459
Join Date: May 2015
Location: RBA / TBS
Programs: AF Gold / Accor Gold / Hilton Diamond / TP Silver / A3 Gold
Posts: 2,741
Question , If i acquire a status in 2017 , what will happen if i dont fly at all in 2018 before the changes ?
I will have it with my counter at zero as usual or i will downgrade to ivory ?
I will have it with my counter at zero as usual or i will downgrade to ivory ?
Nov 7, 2017, 7:06 am
#461
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
However, for the "true" segment runner that only ever bought the cheapest qualifying flights and relied mostly on shorthaul and/or domestic flights, their current flying patterns that gets them a certain status will fall FAR SHORT of attaining that status in the new scheme.
But some people still don't seem to get that.
I realise this is only a concern for a limited number of people who "game" the system (but the target audience for a site like this should be that sort of person, so the inability to see that is a little surprising for me).
True "segment running" in the old, true sense of the term, has died (at least a little, I hope you can concede) in the new programme. It requires a considerable "increase" - whether that is to increase your total number of "cheap" sectors, or to "increase" a number of your purchases to a higher cabin, or to "increase" a number of your purchases to a longer flight type.
Therefore, to say that segment runners are winners is to completely misunderstand the standpoint of a TRUE segment runner.
Nov 7, 2017, 7:08 am
#462
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
If you have not flown at all in 2018, then you have 0 level miles and 0 segments, so you will be awarded 0 XPs. There is simply no scope to do anything with your status at that time.
Nov 7, 2017, 7:12 am
#463
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Paris
Programs: FB Platinum, All Accor Platinum
Posts: 529
below is my 2017 flights:
Last edited by newflyer27; Nov 7, 2017 at 7:24 am
Nov 7, 2017, 7:13 am
#464
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,647
But they are not.
It used to be that 30 of these segments would get you to Gold - which is how I used to qualify for FB Gold. Regardless of whether you were Ivory, Silver, or Gold already, you only needed 30 segments per year to get/maintain Gold.
In future, if you are lucky enough to already have Gold, or have Silver, you will instead require 36 of these segments to get/maintain Gold - a 20% increase. [36 sectors time 5XP for an economy short international flight gives 180XP, the amount necessary for Gold for those already with Silver or Gold]
However, if you are starting from Ivory, you will first need to collect 20 of these segments (to achieve Silver, at which point you lose all 20 segments), and then add another 36 segments to get to Gold - a total of 56 segments, an 86% increase.
If you were a segment runner that relied also on domestic sectors, the number of segments required will raise even further.
Given that "segment runners" shouldn't have been relying on longhaul and/or business sectors as an ongoing strategy - an occasional one, of course, was useful, but the real "value" of these segments was their greater level mileage earning - so for someone aiming for qualification by segments there was no real reason to buy a far-more expensive segment - to say that "but if you fly longhaul and/or business, segment qualifying gets easier!" is to miss the point entirely.
It used to be that 30 of these segments would get you to Gold - which is how I used to qualify for FB Gold. Regardless of whether you were Ivory, Silver, or Gold already, you only needed 30 segments per year to get/maintain Gold.
In future, if you are lucky enough to already have Gold, or have Silver, you will instead require 36 of these segments to get/maintain Gold - a 20% increase. [36 sectors time 5XP for an economy short international flight gives 180XP, the amount necessary for Gold for those already with Silver or Gold]
However, if you are starting from Ivory, you will first need to collect 20 of these segments (to achieve Silver, at which point you lose all 20 segments), and then add another 36 segments to get to Gold - a total of 56 segments, an 86% increase.
If you were a segment runner that relied also on domestic sectors, the number of segments required will raise even further.
Given that "segment runners" shouldn't have been relying on longhaul and/or business sectors as an ongoing strategy - an occasional one, of course, was useful, but the real "value" of these segments was their greater level mileage earning - so for someone aiming for qualification by segments there was no real reason to buy a far-more expensive segment - to say that "but if you fly longhaul and/or business, segment qualifying gets easier!" is to miss the point entirely.
G
Nov 7, 2017, 7:16 am
#465
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Paris
Programs: FB Platinum, All Accor Platinum
Posts: 529
I agree.
However, for the "true" segment runner that only ever bought the cheapest qualifying flights and relied mostly on shorthaul and/or domestic flights, their current flying patterns that gets them a certain status will fall FAR SHORT of attaining that status in the new scheme.
But some people still don't seem to get that.
I realise this is only a concern for a limited number of people who "game" the system (but the target audience for a site like this should be that sort of person, so the inability to see that is a little surprising for me).
True "segment running" in the old, true sense of the term, has died (at least a little, I hope you can concede) in the new programme. It requires a considerable "increase" - whether that is to increase your total number of "cheap" sectors, or to "increase" a number of your purchases to a higher cabin, or to "increase" a number of your purchases to a longer flight type.
Therefore, to say that segment runners are winners is to completely misunderstand the standpoint of a TRUE segment runner.
However, for the "true" segment runner that only ever bought the cheapest qualifying flights and relied mostly on shorthaul and/or domestic flights, their current flying patterns that gets them a certain status will fall FAR SHORT of attaining that status in the new scheme.
But some people still don't seem to get that.
I realise this is only a concern for a limited number of people who "game" the system (but the target audience for a site like this should be that sort of person, so the inability to see that is a little surprising for me).
True "segment running" in the old, true sense of the term, has died (at least a little, I hope you can concede) in the new programme. It requires a considerable "increase" - whether that is to increase your total number of "cheap" sectors, or to "increase" a number of your purchases to a higher cabin, or to "increase" a number of your purchases to a longer flight type.
Therefore, to say that segment runners are winners is to completely misunderstand the standpoint of a TRUE segment runner.