Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#1876
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Le ClubAccor Gold
Posts: 776
#1878
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Le ClubAccor Gold
Posts: 776
#1879
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,619
I just don’t have time (or the desire) to do these surveys any more. I gave up about a month after I signed up for it. I just feel that the effort and work required is not commensurate with the rewards.
#1880
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SJC / SFO
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 785
Delta is remarketing their domestic FC classes to business fare codes: https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...rkets----.html (since 02 Apr, except SEA which is already in effect). Looks like less miles from Delta FC is coming
#1881
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,619
That's what AA did, apparently, which upset a whole lot of people over on the BAEC board. In the light of day, I don't know how they can call it a 1st Class product.
#1883
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,918
Can you please elaborate for the part I have bolded ? Unless you speak of course about the US/Russia/China long domestic flights counting for only 2 XPs. For the other cases/categories, frankly I don't see why it sucks.
#1884
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,619
I am finding the XP system reasonably interesting, for my particular travel patterns (which tend to be somewhat irregular, therefore I benefit more). But if you're doing long domestic flights (USA, Russia, China, Argentina, not to mention numerous European countries) the 2XPs per segment in Economy is a major suck. But I fear if they adjust it, as may well happen in the next couple of years, then they just will adjust something else to our detriment. It could be worse: I think Lufthansa's Miles & More has hit an all time low at the moment. Any lower and they might as well just close the scheme.
#1885
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FRA/SXB
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 1,993
I actually don't mind the new XP scheme as it works out pretty well for me, being based in Germany. A short hop over to Paris is 5XP ! And for my leisure trips to the US I get a healthy chunk of XPs. But yes, the long domestic earnings are a drag......there'll always be winners and losers, I guess.
#1886
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,619
What we are good at, or should be, is dealing with the limitations and working a creative way around them. Arguably, in those countries with long domestic flights, it would be better to just join a local FFP. That could be part of the plan with FB, to discourage people from collecting too much on domestic partner flights, eg the USA on DL.
#1887
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: VPS
Programs: IHG Diamond, Delta PM, Hilton Gold, Accor Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 7,264
I kind of wonder if the low USA domestic XP earnings were part of a strategy to drive some people to the subsequently launched credit card (with opportunities to earn non flight XPs) there. The FB bean counters have to know how lucrative it can be for a FF program to sell miles to US credit card companies. Delta does extremely well with their American Express partnership
#1888
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SJC / SFO
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 785
What we are good at, or should be, is dealing with the limitations and working a creative way around them. Arguably, in those countries with long domestic flights, it would be better to just join a local FFP. That could be part of the plan with FB, to discourage people from collecting too much on domestic partner flights, eg the USA on DL.
#1889
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: SAN, CDG
Programs: FB Plat
Posts: 59
Today, Nov 17th, DL realigns all domestic markets FPAG to JDIZ effective for flights after Jan 6, 2019.
https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...rkets----.html
Do we know what FB will do with Z, since Z earns XP on DL long haul but not DL domestic & regional international yet DL domestic G now becomes Z?
https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...rkets----.html
Do we know what FB will do with Z, since Z earns XP on DL long haul but not DL domestic & regional international yet DL domestic G now becomes Z?
Last edited by paris1000; Nov 17, 2018 at 2:10 pm