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Old Oct 12, 17, 2:40 pm   #1
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I am done with KLM/AIR FRANCE

Dear All,

I have been a frequent flyer with KLM/AIR france for the last 6-7 years, but had an experience that i cannot except.

Baseline of the story is that i have been either Platinum or Gold for the last 7 years.

I had booked a ticked to Kuala Lumpur on business class, a ticked with a price of 4.200 EUR. When i arrived to the airport of Amesteram i was met with two downgrade options, either;

1. Take an Economy ticket or;
2. Take a business ticket over Bangkok arriving 8 hours later.

None of these options was in any way acceptable, but was told these was the only ones i had. The whole idea of business class is comfort and not value.

I therefore decided to go with the economy ticket to KL. It was a long flight but nothing wrong with the flight, just not what i booked or what i had paid for.

A few days after arrival i was contacted by customer service of KLM, who told me that the had made a claim to give me a discount (not specified), i was not that happy about this, since it should be a given not to invoice people for products not delivered.

The whole point of this call was offering me nothing, she couldnt even specify the rights i had in this situations and didnt have any freedom to do anthing extra.

After all of this a am sitting with a very bitter feeling, since if you cannot expect a good service as Gold/Platinum flying on business class, i am done with this airline.

Therefore i say thanks for your priority progam, but unless you want to threat your customers with some level of respect, then I am done with this airline
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Last edited by Anders Fage Jensen; Oct 13, 17 at 12:13 am
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Old Oct 12, 17, 3:32 pm   #2
  
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Sorry to hear of your experience. You should be entitled to compensation under European law and I would certainly also push for a gesture of goodwill from the airline.

in the event of downgrading, the carrier must reimburse the passenger within seven days as follows: i) 30% of the ticket price for flights of 1 500 km or less, (ii) 50% for flights of between 1 500 and 3 500 km and intra-EU flights of more than 1 500 km, and (iii) 75% for flights of over 3 500 km

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyour...FTU_5.6.2.html
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Old Oct 12, 17, 6:41 pm   #3
  
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What status did you have at the time? Was your FF number entered? Did you check-in online?
Seems weird KL would downgrade an Elite member unless you're the last one to check-in ...
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Old Oct 12, 17, 7:02 pm   #4
  
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To assist you, we would need much more details on your experience. Like date and flight number, fare bucket of your flight, was it part of a more complex ticket, did you decide to change the travel date to a day where flight was full, did you have a seat assigned , did you check in online, did you arrive at airport late....
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Old Oct 12, 17, 9:55 pm   #5
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@ ExpatSomchai
Yes found that information as well, however still dont feel this is enough and was told by KLM that it could take up to a month before they come back with an offer of reimbursement,

@ Mirk
Had gold at the time, was entered, that flight made me platinum in points and was my 55 flight of the year with KLM. I checked in when i could about 24 hours before.

@ brunos
Date was 8 of October 2017, flight out of Amsterdam at 12.50. I was flying with KLM from Aalborg Denmark, over amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, everything on business. I booked the ticket 2 month ago, but could only assignt seat online on the return flight.
I didnt arrive late and didnt change my ticket.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 12:38 am   #6
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Fage Jensen View Post
. I booked the ticket 2 month ago, but could only assignt seat online on the return flight.
That is usually an indication that the cabin is already full/overbooked.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 1:56 am   #7
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpatSomchai View Post
Sorry to hear of your experience. You should be entitled to compensation under European law and I would certainly also push for a gesture of goodwill from the airline.

in the event of downgrading, the carrier must reimburse the passenger within seven days as follows:75% for flights of over 3 500 km

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyour...FTU_5.6.2.html
ticket was 4.500, say say 2.250 per segment.
Normal KL fare in eco to KL is about 650.

So they reimburst him 75% of 2.2250 = 1690 euro, stil paying 560 euro for a single segment. I would not be happy with this outcome!
Or do they reimburst 75% of 4.500? (3.375), and let him fly back in Business? That still would mean he is paying 1.125 for a outbound in Eco en return in Business.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 2:13 am   #8
  
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Originally Posted by Justin Case View Post
So they reimburst him 75% of 2.2250 = 1690 euro, stil paying 560 euro for a single segment. I would not be happy with this outcome!
What outcome would you be happy with? Those are the EU regulations, I'm sure KL will throw in some miles for good will, or maybe even offer some voucher for future use.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 2:18 am   #9
  
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This does not make much sense to me. Booked a fairly expensive ticket, two months ago, FB Gold and they cannot find a seat during that time!
In any case you should push KLM and remind them of their EU obligations and time frame. KLM is not as good as AF regarding compensation.
You are owed 75% of that segment. There is always some interpretation regarding the base amount. You could argue that your Denmark-KUL is cheaper than AMS-KUL. Hence you should get 75% of 2 100.

Frankly, I don't understand why additional goodwill gesture is expected, this is already a nice gesture (if KL oblige).
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Old Oct 13, 17, 3:01 am   #10
  
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Originally Posted by Ditto View Post
What outcome would you be happy with? Those are the EU regulations, I'm sure KL will throw in some miles for good will, or maybe even offer some voucher for future use.
What i think would be reasonable (especially as an top tier frequent flyer in their programme), would be to receive an Y to C upgrade voucher for one segment for another fight. " Sorry we had to downgrade you, we will make it up by offering you an C seat when flying y (if available). That is next to the 75% rebate on the 1 segment.

Otherwise airlines can make good money by letting customers pay for an expensive business class ticket, en then downgrading them to economy.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 3:14 am   #11
  
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Sad story, and AF KLM lose a profitable customer who buys €4,200 tickets, not some low profit €400 cheapo
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Old Oct 13, 17, 3:22 am   #12
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Case View Post
What i think would be reasonable (especially as an top tier frequent flyer in their programme), would be to receive an Y to C upgrade voucher for one segment for another fight. " Sorry we had to downgrade you, we will make it up by offering you an C seat when flying y (if available). That is next to the 75% rebate on the 1 segment.

Otherwise airlines can make good money by letting customers pay for an expensive business class ticket, en then downgrading them to economy.
That would be a nice gesture yes, are you aware of any airline offering this type of compensation?

Airlines can do a lot of dubious things, but also keep in mind that a 4200 ticket probably offered some sort of flexibility, so is it really fair to compare it to the cheapest KL eco ticket? I guess we will see if OP comes back to report the amount refunded.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 3:25 am   #13
  
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Well, like the other two monopolies in Europe, they no longer care about customers. As choice disappears through consolidation and bankruptcies, they know that sooner or later we will have to come back and use their services, no matter how they treat us. KLM seems to have changed a lot in the last couple of years, to my eyes.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 5:56 am   #14
  
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Originally Posted by Concerto View Post
Well, like the other two monopolies in Europe, they no longer care about customers. As choice disappears through consolidation and bankruptcies, they know that sooner or later we will have to come back and use their services, no matter how they treat us. KLM seems to have changed a lot in the last couple of years, to my eyes.
There are no monopolies when looking at the European airline industry as a whole.

For Germany...yeah, I now spend a lot of time here and well...we're screwed! luckily the DB is good and affordable.

For the rest of Europe you have the big 3 Groups LH, IAG, AFKL BUT don't forget for all other intra-europa flights you have Ryanair, Easyjet, Wizzair...etc... They are big airlines!

Then when looking at international you have ME3, Chinese airlines, SEA airlines, US Airlines, South American airlines. There is no monopoly when not just looking at individual countries. We have pretty good competition, as a whole.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 6:17 am   #15
  
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For the moment, but I predict it will get worse. You are right that the LCCs provide a huge choice in Europe, but I was tending to think of the legacy carriers when I referred to monopolies. Which, from our point of view here, implies the collecting and spending of miles! I find DB, unfortunately, marginally too unreliable. And it's definitely not that affordable, unless you're booking Saver tickets in advance.
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