New policy for paid and miles upgrades (AF/KL) - sept 2017
Apr 12, 2019, 3:57 am
#751
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: MAN
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 500
Apr 13, 2019, 5:00 am
#754
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,909
Apr 13, 2019, 7:48 pm
#755
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: AF/KL FB Plat ; A3 Gold ; HH Gold ; IHG Plat Amb
Posts: 2,375
It looks like the regular miles upgrade to P at 3 times the "good old standard" one way economy fare (75k to US, 120k to Asia, I believe Europe JNB was 30k one way in Y meaning 90k upgrade from J/C/D to F)
Apr 14, 2019, 8:11 am
#757
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,044
the Flying Blue scheme for awards and upgrades is just a joke !
Apr 14, 2019, 8:37 am
#759
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,410
You can't reasonably compare apples to oranges, earning rates are also very different with LH/LX, and mostly for the worse iMHO.
Apr 22, 2019, 11:28 pm
#760
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,545
But a point of comparison.
I have three return tickets CDG-HKG bought in cheapest I business fare (EUR2,200). I just managed to upgrade all six LH to F, 30K avios each segment (60K return).
I know that the 14 BA F seats per ac are mostly used by awards (full and upgrades), but that's a nice incentive. A very different business model.
Apr 23, 2019, 3:14 am
#761
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,832
To make a meaningful earn/burn comparison one would have to check how many EUR of spend are needed to get a certain award. Take two examples:
- Base member. Earns 4 miles/EUR spent on FB. For an intra-Euro award in Y at 7,500 miles that base member would need to spend EUR 1,875. However, if that same award prices out at 25,000 miles (not unseen with FB) then that same member wold need to spend EUR 6,250. On M&M, a Euro flight costs always 17,000 miles. For a base member with 4 miles/EUR spent this means spending EUR 4,250 to get an award.
- Status member, Plat on FB. gets 8 miles per EUR spent. For a Europe-USA award in J class. On days that awards are 57,500 the member would need to spend EUR 7,125 to get the award miles. On other days, where the award is 150,000 miles (not unseen on FB) the member must have spent EUR 18,750 to get the award miles. For comparison, on LH/LX, the SEN members gets 6 miles per EUR spent. The award costs 52,000 miles. Which means he must have spent EUR 8,666 to get enough miles.
Last edited by San Gottardo; Apr 23, 2019 at 3:34 am
Apr 23, 2019, 4:01 am
#762
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,410
The big difference is that LH/LX don't have dynamic pricing of awards. It's a table, so the awards cost always the same, no matter which flight/date you take. If they are available (often they are not).
...
Conclusion: the dynamic pricing makes a comparison difficult. On the days that FB offers low award rates, it is more attractive than M&M. On days that FB has crazy award rates, M&M is more attractive. But even that is difficult to compare: because the reason for FB to have crazy award rates is that few/only expensive seats are available on that flight for purchase. With M&M when there are only few/expensive seats for purchase, they wouldn't show any availability for awards.
...
Conclusion: the dynamic pricing makes a comparison difficult. On the days that FB offers low award rates, it is more attractive than M&M. On days that FB has crazy award rates, M&M is more attractive. But even that is difficult to compare: because the reason for FB to have crazy award rates is that few/only expensive seats are available on that flight for purchase. With M&M when there are only few/expensive seats for purchase, they wouldn't show any availability for awards.
Nonetheless FB offering extra seats are higher prices is a positive thing, it is better than no availability at all.
Apr 23, 2019, 5:22 am
#763
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,832
To be able to do further comparison, one would need to know how many award sears are available with M&M, vs. how many award seats are available with FB at the lower miles amount.
Nonetheless FB offering extra seats are higher prices is a positive thing, it is better than no availability at all.
Nonetheless FB offering extra seats are higher prices is a positive thing, it is better than no availability at all.
From personal experience with both programs, I find the "good deals" on FB really good deals. However, in about half the cases they are not available on the dates/routes that I want to travel. M&M only works for me because I have a booking guarantee. Otherwise I would find it nearly impossible to get the seats at the dates that I want (esp. vacation time).
Apr 24, 2019, 12:41 pm
#764
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2
Hi I'm new here for the upgrade think with FB.
Does anyone know a way to check how much miles you are required for an upgrade from economy to premium or business on IAD-AMS route? Currently I don't have enough miles in the FB account but thinking of transfer some AMEX points since it have a special promotion right now. The problem is whenever I tried to click the upgrade option in my booking it just gave me the answer as "you don't have enough miles" without telling how much is needed. I prefer to know exactly or close enough number of points to transfer before doing it. Anyone can give me any suggestions?
Does anyone know a way to check how much miles you are required for an upgrade from economy to premium or business on IAD-AMS route? Currently I don't have enough miles in the FB account but thinking of transfer some AMEX points since it have a special promotion right now. The problem is whenever I tried to click the upgrade option in my booking it just gave me the answer as "you don't have enough miles" without telling how much is needed. I prefer to know exactly or close enough number of points to transfer before doing it. Anyone can give me any suggestions?
Apr 29, 2019, 2:54 pm
#765
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: VIE/PRG
Programs: FB Platinum, Marriott Platinum Elite
Posts: 1,591
Maybe is it just me but I have never found to be a good value using miles to upgrade already existing ticket, especially for a short of 7 hour flight on IAD-AMS. My advice, rather wait for cheap cash offer.