FlyerTalk Forums - New policy for paid and miles upgrades (AF/KL)

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- - New policy for paid and miles upgrades (AF/KL) - sept 2017 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-france-klm-other-partners-flying-blue/1867992-new-policy-paid-miles-upgrades-af-kl-sept-2017-a.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 747jetter (Post 30991800)

I believe it has to be "D" to be able to upgrade using miles to La Premiere. Not every business class ticket is upgradeable.

Just rechecked my ticket .. it is D. Look at the miles option...
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...bde3bdf45a.png

"D" can be upgraded in advance how many days you want in case there is an award space. Using miles of course.

90 000 offered for C to P on CDG-JNB. Reasonable, no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by breton1fr (Post 30995424)

90 000 offered for C to P on CDG-JNB. Reasonable, no?

definitely ! A super deal I would even say.

It looks like the regular miles upgrade to P at 3 times the "good old standard" one way economy fare (75k to US, 120k to Asia, I believe Europe JNB was 30k one way in Y meaning 90k upgrade from J/C/D to F)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranskis (Post 30997578)

almost the price of a regular Miles Award ticket with Star alliance/LH/LX !
the Flying Blue scheme for awards and upgrades is just a joke !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldorak (Post 30995591)

definitely ! A super deal I would even say.

I agree with you , this is « cheap » for AF , but out of range compare to other alliances

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullspread (Post 30998852)

almost the price of a regular Miles Award ticket with Star alliance/LH/LX !
the Flying Blue scheme for awards and upgrades is just a joke !

You can't reasonably compare apples to oranges, earning rates are also very different with LH/LX, and mostly for the worse iMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullspread (Post 30998852)

almost the price of a regular Miles Award ticket with Star alliance/LH/LX !
the Flying Blue scheme for awards and upgrades is just a joke !

You certainly cannot compare apples and oranges, and BA F product is inferior to AF F, especially on the ground (I like BA A380 suite).
But a point of comparison.
I have three return tickets CDG-HKG bought in cheapest I business fare (EUR2,200). I just managed to upgrade all six LH to F, 30K avios each segment (60K return).

I know that the 14 BA F seats per ac are mostly used by awards (full and upgrades), but that's a nice incentive. A very different business model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ditto (Post 30998907)

You can't reasonably compare apples to oranges, earning rates are also very different with LH/LX, and mostly for the worse iMHO.

The big difference is that LH/LX don't have dynamic pricing of awards. It's a table, so the awards cost always the same, no matter which flight/date you take. If they are available (often they are not).

To make a meaningful earn/burn comparison one would have to check how many EUR of spend are needed to get a certain award. Take two examples:

Base member. Earns 4 miles/EUR spent on FB. For an intra-Euro award in Y at 7,500 miles that base member would need to spend EUR 1,875. However, if that same award prices out at 25,000 miles (not unseen with FB) then that same member wold need to spend EUR 6,250. On M&M, a Euro flight costs always 17,000 miles. For a base member with 4 miles/EUR spent this means spending EUR 4,250 to get an award.
Status member, Plat on FB. gets 8 miles per EUR spent. For a Europe-USA award in J class. On days that awards are 57,500 the member would need to spend EUR 7,125 to get the award miles. On other days, where the award is 150,000 miles (not unseen on FB) the member must have spent EUR 18,750 to get the award miles. For comparison, on LH/LX, the SEN members gets 6 miles per EUR spent. The award costs 52,000 miles. Which means he must have spent EUR 8,666 to get enough miles.

Conclusion: the dynamic pricing makes a comparison difficult. On the days that FB offers low award rates, it is more attractive than M&M. On days that FB has crazy award rates, M&M is more attractive. But even that is difficult to compare: because the reason for FB to have crazy award rates is that few/only expensive seats are available on that flight for purchase. With M&M when there are only few/expensive seats for purchase, they wouldn't show any availability for awards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by San Gottardo (Post 31027963)

The big difference is that LH/LX don't have dynamic pricing of awards. It's a table, so the awards cost always the same, no matter which flight/date you take. If they are available (often they are not).
...
Conclusion: the dynamic pricing makes a comparison difficult. On the days that FB offers low award rates, it is more attractive than M&M. On days that FB has crazy award rates, M&M is more attractive. But even that is difficult to compare: because the reason for FB to have crazy award rates is that few/only expensive seats are available on that flight for purchase. With M&M when there are only few/expensive seats for purchase, they wouldn't show any availability for awards.

To be able to do further comparison, one would need to know how many award sears are available with M&M, vs. how many award seats are available with FB at the lower miles amount.
Nonetheless FB offering extra seats are higher prices is a positive thing, it is better than no availability at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ditto (Post 31028041)

Yes, you're right, that would give a more complete picture. Especially since the link between fares-for-purchase and mileage amount required is not always intuitive with FB (you can have low award price although only high purchase fares are available, and vice-versa).

From personal experience with both programs, I find the "good deals" on FB really good deals. However, in about half the cases they are not available on the dates/routes that I want to travel. M&M only works for me because I have a booking guarantee. Otherwise I would find it nearly impossible to get the seats at the dates that I want (esp. vacation time).

Hi I'm new here for the upgrade think with FB.

Does anyone know a way to check how much miles you are required for an upgrade from economy to premium or business on IAD-AMS route? Currently I don't have enough miles in the FB account but thinking of transfer some AMEX points since it have a special promotion right now. The problem is whenever I tried to click the upgrade option in my booking it just gave me the answer as "you don't have enough miles" without telling how much is needed. I prefer to know exactly or close enough number of points to transfer before doing it. Anyone can give me any suggestions?

Maybe is it just me but I have never found to be a good value using miles to upgrade already existing ticket, especially for a short of 7 hour flight on IAD-AMS. My advice, rather wait for cheap cash offer.