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New policy for paid and miles upgrades (AF/KL) - sept 2017

New policy for paid and miles upgrades (AF/KL) - sept 2017

Old Feb 3, 18, 7:37 pm
  #301  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Originally Posted by majik View Post
Yes AF/KL logic, lets make less money by discouraging our most frequent travellers from upgrading.
I guess they expect those pax to book in J instead of booking in Y and upgrading.
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Old Feb 3, 18, 11:17 pm
  #302  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: YVR, YYC, SEA, AMS, ORK
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Originally Posted by SkyteamEP View Post
I guess they expect those pax to book in J instead of booking in Y and upgrading.
I'm already booking into J. I usually split my tickets, overnights in J, daytime in Y. With the old revenue model if I could get an upgrade on the daytime return flight then great but it wasn't a deal-breaker.

Many flyers are booked into Y for daytime flights by their employers and are self upgrading if it is available and at fair cost. Now, exponentially increasing upgrade fares on loyal FB flyers in a misguided attempt at forcing them to purchase full J fares is going to backfire.

I mean what kind of optics are produced when a Y pax with a $1000 ticket gets an upgrade offer for $400 while the FB Gold flyer with (J/Y) mixed class fare costing say $2600 is offered the same seat on the same flight for $1200! AF/KL are living in some kind of PR-free twilight zone.
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Old Feb 3, 18, 11:20 pm
  #303  
 
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Originally Posted by majik View Post
I mean what kind of optics are produced when a Y pax with a $1000 ticket gets an upgrade offer for $400 while the FB Gold flyer with (J/Y) mixed class fare costing say $2600 is offered the same seat on the same flight for $1200! AF/KL are living in some kind of PR-free twilight zone.
They don't need to care about the PR as long as their competitors aren't better. Besides, the discounted J upgrade is also aimed to encourage to people to fly J rather then a frequent flyer benefit.
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Old Feb 5, 18, 1:22 am
  #304  
 
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Originally Posted by Sjondorn View Post
They don't need to care about the PR as long as their competitors aren't better.
Literally THE worst way to run a business. KL in particular are falling well behind not only their competitors but also their ST partners.
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Old Feb 5, 18, 6:42 am
  #305  
 
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Originally Posted by majik View Post
Literally THE worst way to run a business. KL in particular are falling well behind not only their competitors but also their ST partners.
Ha, not really. Delta flyers for instance LOVE KL flights out of amsterdam - the easiest way to upgrade an TATL flight. Try to do such an upgrade on a DL flight, the asking price is the same for everyone : the exact price difference between the paid Y ticket and the published C tariff. So KL is still far better then most competitors, just ask your friends over on the BA forum!
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Old Feb 5, 18, 11:57 pm
  #306  
 
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Originally Posted by BER Flyer View Post
Ha, not really. Delta flyers for instance LOVE KL flights out of amsterdam - the easiest way to upgrade an TATL flight. Try to do such an upgrade on a DL flight, the asking price is the same for everyone : the exact price difference between the paid Y ticket and the published C tariff. So KL is still far better then most competitors, just ask your friends over on the BA forum!
Not anymore. As I have said before, since the revenue management system change in September upgrades for AF/KL FF are being charged at rates equivalent to the Y/J fare difference, so now exactly the same as Delta does.

However DL still has regional & global upgrade certs as a perk for Diamond/Plat medallion and complimentary upgrades on NA flights. So out of the gates DL has better upgrades offerings for FF.
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Old Feb 6, 18, 11:14 am
  #307  
 
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Originally Posted by majik View Post
Not anymore. As I have said before, since the revenue management system change in September upgrades for AF/KL FF are being charged at rates equivalent to the Y/J fare difference, so now exactly the same as Delta does.

However DL still has regional & global upgrade certs as a perk for Diamond/Plat medallion and complimentary upgrades on NA flights. So out of the gates DL has better upgrades offerings for FF.
Complimentary upgrades on US domestic flights, however:
1) Domestic first class has actually better seats and is not a moving curtain.
2) All airlines in US do that, not just Delta.
3) They are actually moving off from that slowly (paid upgrades, etc.)

Good luck getting an upgrade on one of the main routes though, because many times domestic first class is sold out anyway. Just because you don't get the upgrades as you did before doesn't mean airline has bad PR (not defending the exorbitant upgrade pricing here with the new system).
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Old Feb 6, 18, 12:25 pm
  #308  
 
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Originally Posted by majik View Post
Not anymore. As I have said before, since the revenue management system change in September upgrades for AF/KL FF are being charged at rates equivalent to the Y/J fare difference, so now exactly the same as Delta does.

However DL still has regional & global upgrade certs as a perk for Diamond/Plat medallion and complimentary upgrades on NA flights. So out of the gates DL has better upgrades offerings for FF.
It does seem somewhat odd to offer upgrades for the fare difference. Yes there's the crowd of business flyers limited to booking in to Y that then have the ability to personally fund their own upgrade and couldn't have just purchased the J fare from the beginning. But everybody else, if they wanted to upgrade for what it would have cost to just purchase the J ticket outright then they most likely would have done just that.
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Old Feb 6, 18, 1:05 pm
  #309  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Originally Posted by majik View Post
Not anymore. As I have said before, since the revenue management system change in September upgrades for AF/KL FF are being charged at rates equivalent to the Y/J fare difference, so now exactly the same as Delta does.

However DL still has regional & global upgrade certs as a perk for Diamond/Plat medallion and complimentary upgrades on NA flights. So out of the gates DL has better upgrades offerings for FF.
I was offered ( and accepted ) a 339,- euro upgrade from Y ( either L or V, lowest Y booking class ) to C for AMS - ATL on january 27th so there still offers like these around. During the same trip was also offered 79,- Euros for TXL-AMS and 89,- Euros for AMS-ARN, both declined.
Had an similiar offer ( i think 311 Euros ) for AMS-JFK on december 20th.
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Old Feb 6, 18, 9:29 pm
  #310  
 
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Originally Posted by Solevita View Post
It does seem somewhat odd to offer upgrades for the fare difference. (...) But everybody else, if they wanted to upgrade for what it would have cost to just purchase the J ticket outright then they most likely would have done just that.
This is very true.

But remember that AF is obsessed with the idea that people who can afford to pay C will gamble and pay Y if they can hope to upgrade for cheaper.

This is completely stupid and only an imbecile can believe that.

If you wish to fly C and can afford it, then why would you take the risk of ending up in a cramped seat by booking Y?

Anyhow, AF hates upgrades (other than for staff, friends and family).
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Old Feb 7, 18, 9:25 am
  #311  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Milan / Paris / London
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I am AZ Ulisse, no FB status
on Feb 4 got offered on OLCI upgrade from M to J on LIN_AMS: € 74 - I declined
today on OLCI upgrade from H to J on AMS_KUL: € 378 - I accepted! (Consider I had paid €130 for Econ Comfort seats, that as far as I know get discounted, in this case total cost shound be around € 500, which is in my range).

Cheers,
Alberto
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Old Feb 9, 18, 2:09 am
  #312  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by BER Flyer View Post
I was offered ( and accepted ) a 339,- euro upgrade from Y ( either L or V, lowest Y booking class ) to C for AMS - ATL on january 27th so there still offers like these around. During the same trip was also offered 79,- Euros for TXL-AMS and 89,- Euros for AMS-ARN, both declined.
Had an similiar offer ( i think 311 Euros ) for AMS-JFK on december 20th.
Not as good as Mrs. Majik (non FB member) had on AMS-YYC for EUR285. Whereas FB member gets dinged for EUR852 on the same flight in the same class, that's my biggest gripe overall.
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Old Feb 9, 18, 4:52 am
  #313  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Online check-in for my flight tomorrow DUS-AMS-CTG.
Got an offer for an upgrade
DUS-AMS 99 Euro
AMS-CTG 899 Euro.
No thanks.
Was registered before with my FB number to get a better offer or at least an offer with miles. After check-in I changed to my DL Diamond to have free access for the Eco Comfort.
Ridiculous this offers. But I think other travellers got better offers because after check-in began, the open seats in Business were very fast occupied. Changed from J9 to J1 in some hours.
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Old Feb 9, 18, 4:55 am
  #314  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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little bit off topic - but Alitalia seems to be the choice for cheap upgrades. I just returned from a LHR-ICN journey (850€ premium economy ticket) where I could upgrade from for 180€ (minimum bid accepted). next weekend I am on a 600€ premium economy roundtrip MUC-JFK and minimum bid starts at 240€). Reports indicate that when there is availability AZ takes the extra cash when possible
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Old Feb 13, 18, 10:55 am
  #315  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
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The at the gate upgrade offer for ATL-CDG (Feb 10) on a 772 (40J) was $1200 from Y and $600 from PE. I don't recall the milage option - but it was high enough that it was a bad value in my mind vs cash. Saw many pass on the offer when they heard the cash amount, but I took it as the flight was over two hours late which was going to result in a very long layover to my onward destination and I needed the sleep. When I boarded they announced they had 4 J upgrades left. Looking back, this is definitely the most I have paid at the gate in ATL.

This was on top of a $2k last minute economy fare - but in total still much less than what AF and DL want for J ex-ATL (typically $6-8k!) when booked within 14 days. Once I run out of GUCs I typically book AF metal for at least the overnight TATL flight on these last minute flights, rather than on Delta, for the paid upgrade opportunity. My tolerance for booking J ATL-EU is about $4k RT. Much more over that and I'll suck it up in Y.

Offer at OLCI was $800 with the old 773 seat for my return on Feb 15 day. I passed on that.
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