Ratatoskr

Hey everybody!

I've got a quick question (hopefully) regarding a hidden-city ticket situation. I've booked a KLM return flight that routes me through Amsterdam both ways, but since booking that my plans changed and I have now also booked a flight from AMS to Rome which I am going to take instead, so I will fly the first half of the return. I am aware that I should not do this - and indeed tried to change by calling my TA (the original return flight is for work and booked through my employer). They told me a change is not possible, however actively recommended to just skip the last leg and book a separate flight, and even checked they will not be charged a no-show fee. I was now wondering whether I should let KLM know that I am not taking the last leg at AMS when I arrive (e.g. in case the flight is overbooked) - or would this draw unwanted attention to a one-off they might otherwise not pay much attention to?

Second question, the onward flight I booked to Rome is with AZ, hence also SkyTeam. Should I add my FF Number to that booking, or will they become very suspicious when I have two conflicting flights on the same account? I currently have no Status, so there would be no difference for me, and I would claim missing miles afterwards.

Many thanks!
Sebastian

Ditto

I'm not so sure why is this a 'hidden-city' situation? You didn't provide your full route but if I get it right, you have a ticket AAA-AMS-BBB r/t, and you want to skip the AMS-AAA segment on the return trip, there is no issues with that as there are no further legs on your journey and so nothing will be cancelled.

The only catch is if you have checked-in luggage, getting KL to short-check it to AMS might not be possible.

Ratatoskr

Thanks for the reply Ditto! Yes you got that correctly, sorry for not providing exact routing, I thought it wasn't required, but certainly would have made it clearer. OK, I might have got the terminology wrong, I thought hidden-city means leaving the return flight a stop earlier (usually to save money). I know nothing will be cancelled, and I have no checked-in luggage, but my concern was more that airlines disapprove of not using all the booked segments.

natcin

for what its worth, I've done the same in asia before and did not encounter any problems. i did a PVG-PEK + PEK-ICN-NRT round trip and since i did not need to be at PEK on the way back, i basically skipped two legs (ICN-PEK-PVG) and replacing it by one direct back to PVG (ICN-PVG). all were on sky team airlines.

Ratatoskr

Ok sounds good. Might just be one data-point, but at least I don't seem to plan something stupid. Thanks

irishguy28

You are correct - this is exactly what the airlines call this behaviour.

It mostly does happen in order to get a cheaper fare to the "desired" city by instead booking a flight that connects in your "desired" city onto another city; but as you have shown, the reasons that customers end up doing things like this can be for slightly different reasons rather than setting out to cheat the airline out of money.

However, when you jump out at a city that was booked only as a connection point, then you are engaging in "hidden city ticketing".

In general, unless you do this frequently and somehow come to the airline's attention, it shouldn't be an issue. And, as you are aware, doing this with checked-luggage is a no-no (unless your onward connection from AMS is the next day, or operated by train or bus. KLM does charge a hefty fee to have bags retrieved from the luggage system at AMS if they are checked through to your original destination, and most outstations will NOT short-check bags unless your onward journey from AMS is the next day, or by train or bus).

If it makes you feel better - don't add your FFP number to your Rome flight. You can do a retro-claim for that flight in the coming weeks/months.

Note that your AZ flight may not earn in Flying Blue (check the earning tables) so there may be no point putting your number in that booking, anyway.

Ditto

Hidden-city more often refer to one-ways, and also you do fly to your destination and rather don't go back to your origin, so it's more like a throwaway ticket than 'hidden-city' in my opinion

irishguy28

There are similarities, for sure, but "throwaway ticketing" usually means throwing away the complete return part of a journey - i.e. buying a return ticket instead of a one-way, in order to avoid a steep one-way fare.

Throwaway ticketing doesn't require there to be a connection - whereas hidden city does require there to be connection.

(Once a pax disembarks at a point that was not a stopover on any leg of their journey, the "hidden city" element takes precedence. All "hidden city" tickets by definition involve the "throwing away" of the remaining (usually only a final/last) sector(s). "Throwaway ticketing" usually means just not showing up for the return - though it is always better to try and book that return for some future date where it may be of use).

irishguy28

No - that's not what hidden city ticketing is.

With a hidden city ticket, you DON'T go to your ticketed destination. You instead disembark at a HIDDEN CITY. If you buy a Boston-Munich ticket but disembark at Paris, that is HIDDEN CITY - you told the airline you wanted to travel to MUC when you actually wanted to travel to Paris - because continuing on to MUC was cheaper than ending in Paris - and you simply end your travel at that "hidden city".

A person in this thread tried to do exactly that - but mixed up throwaway ticketing with hidden city ticketing, too. They bought a BOS-MUC-BOS ticket when what they really wanted was a BOS-PAR-BOS ticket; hidden city ticketing only works when you do the necessary repositioning at the origin, NOT at the destination [so LGA-BOS-PAR-BOS on a LGA-PAR-LGA ticket, rather than the impossible BOS-PAR-BOS that (s)he hoped to do on a BOS-CDG-MUC-CDG-BOS ticket], as this poor soul discovered to their cost:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...airfrance.html

C W

Nicely defined ^

Great_circle

Quick question regarding this, I'm about to book OSL-AMS-HKG v.v. on KLM in J. Since I live near AMS I am considering a 29+ hour inbound itinerary arriving in AMS at 18:55 and connecting the next morning 10:05 and try to check my bags to AMS because of the long overnight layover. Then of course skip the AMS-OSL part.
Will this be considered hidden city ticketing? And is KLM known to be very strict in these situations? Or should I rather take the <16 hours inbound connection to OSL and find my way back to Amsterdam the next day?

CyBeR

Yes, that is considered hidden city ticketing. No KLM is not very strict about that, except of course that you must do OSL-AMS or the rest will be cancelled.

Great_circle

I would use all legs except the final AMS-OSL leg. Good to know they're not very strict (have never done this before). Only worry would be that I would not be allowed to check my bag to AMS due to the long layover before I should continue to OSL.

CyBeR

For overnight layovers that shouldn't be a problem, but I would maybe make sure to have alternate arrangements in case they won't do it.

KLM appears to currently have different stated policies for this depending on whether you speak Dutch or English. In English, they say:

While in Dutch they leave that line out but instead say:

(If you transfer at AMS or CDG you may be able to pick up your luggage depending on your ticket conditions and possibly for a fee.)

cysyuen

I don't know if this is how it works with KL but for BA, I phoned up and cancel the last EU leg from LHR just so they do not have to look for me?