May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: Goldorak
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE
Main facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
Paris ORY
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to reportMain facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
- Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding
- Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign.
- Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone (on the left of terminal). Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line).
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
- Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
Paris ORY
- Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding
Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report
Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed
Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report
Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report
Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report
Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report
Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request
Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report
Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report
Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report
Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment
United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report
NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report
USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge.
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only / terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs),
- JFK (KL only / terminal 4) : no special treatments to report.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porsche transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge
Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival
CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff (inconsistently provided).
- SCL: as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in, pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously
ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report.
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to private (crew) security, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report
CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure
MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report
AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: escort on arrival through immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status
Nov 18, 2018, 10:46 am
#1771
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: France
Programs: LH Senator, AF/KL Platinum Ultimate, Le Club Accor Hotels Diamond, Nordic Choice Hotels Platinum
Posts: 60
I took one of my long haul flights to go through the 2017-2018/3 miles before I contacted them in June, asked whether they would use the conversion rate Level Miles/XP or the new XP scheme to look at Ultimate XP for the period Jan 2017-Mar 2018. At that time it didn't make any difference anyhow. The first one made me cross 1800 at the end of May, the latter one on May 6. Their issue seemed to be that there were no XP counters for LTP and only UXP counters for Ulti's. So, they took the non-commercial savvy way and referred to it not being their department.
It is not about "aspiring Ulti", rather than having access to the TA that would be easy. With the amount of flying them, things happen and rather than waiting up to 10-15 minutes for the Platinum Service Line, faster access would be nice. At least they wouldn't re-route on Turkish Airlines and tell me it is a good company. Also overfull SkyPriority lines in CDG/ORD and smaller French airports would help. And yes, there is a lot of AMS, but with 1500+ "UXP" in 2018, some 30%+ is non-KLM that would/could make travel experience nicer, but foremost a little easier.
It is not about "aspiring Ulti", rather than having access to the TA that would be easy. With the amount of flying them, things happen and rather than waiting up to 10-15 minutes for the Platinum Service Line, faster access would be nice. At least they wouldn't re-route on Turkish Airlines and tell me it is a good company. Also overfull SkyPriority lines in CDG/ORD and smaller French airports would help. And yes, there is a lot of AMS, but with 1500+ "UXP" in 2018, some 30%+ is non-KLM that would/could make travel experience nicer, but foremost a little easier.
Nov 19, 2018, 3:27 pm
#1772
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,044
Good experience last week with AF with greeting from J purser and chief purser.
They asked me my preferred choice of meal before all other J PAX. Special attention from J staff to let me sleep until the buckle sign appears but with proactive coffee proposed with pastries.
So a good onboard experience with crew BUT the plane was not retrofitted it means I had an horrible lie flat bed in business.
In that case even with all special attentions of the crew, I do not fly AF usually but here I had no choice (last minute booking and time constraints).
Incredible to see that AF stills have so many planes equipped with old business class seats ...
They asked me my preferred choice of meal before all other J PAX. Special attention from J staff to let me sleep until the buckle sign appears but with proactive coffee proposed with pastries.
So a good onboard experience with crew BUT the plane was not retrofitted it means I had an horrible lie flat bed in business.
In that case even with all special attentions of the crew, I do not fly AF usually but here I had no choice (last minute booking and time constraints).
Incredible to see that AF stills have so many planes equipped with old business class seats ...
Nov 20, 2018, 12:07 am
#1773
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Repeated strikes cost money. A lot of money. Add to this ill-advised decisions by people who seem completely disconnected from the needs of the PAXs. You have the recipe for an airline lagging behind. On African routes, where AF enjoys a quasi monopolistic position, it does not make much difference, but on North American routes, where competition is fierce, old cabins equipped with NEV3 seats are an anachronism.
Nov 20, 2018, 3:13 am
#1774
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
Repeated strikes cost money. A lot of money. Add to this ill-advised decisions by people who seem completely disconnected from the needs of the PAXs. You have the recipe for an airline lagging behind. On African routes, where AF enjoys a quasi monopolistic position, it does not make much difference, but on North American routes, where competition is fierce, old cabins equipped with NEV3 seats are an anachronism.
IMO there is no anachronism, rather a failure to still have those old cabins on their long haul network, would it be for Africa, India, Asia or the Americas.
Nov 20, 2018, 5:35 am
#1775
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,832
I am just afraid that they point to two other carriers that are financially MUCH more successful: BA and Lufthansa. And will argue that one has 2-2-2 config (Lufthansa), and the other one has the flying equivalent of a field camp. Benchmarking to the bottom where it suits them, and drawing from that the conclusion that J class cabin doesn't make a difference.
Glad to see some signs of Ben Smith piercing a needle into the bubble.
To bring it back on topic: whether the bubble will realise that having a super-top tier is a great idea but that their interpretation of it with giving virtually no benefits to people who are captured already anyway is a pathetic joke that generates hardly any new profit (if at all), which makes it as poor a business decision as their J class (non-)renovation.
Glad to see some signs of Ben Smith piercing a needle into the bubble.
To bring it back on topic: whether the bubble will realise that having a super-top tier is a great idea but that their interpretation of it with giving virtually no benefits to people who are captured already anyway is a pathetic joke that generates hardly any new profit (if at all), which makes it as poor a business decision as their J class (non-)renovation.
Nov 21, 2018, 4:32 am
#1776
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 191
It is not a joke nor a poor decision : AF knows that this customer segment loves to bark and threat but never actually moves its business to the competition. Why would they pay any effort?
Last edited by breton1fr; Nov 21, 2018 at 5:42 am
Nov 21, 2018, 6:28 am
#1777
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,362
Does AT really have such a significant share of the Europe-Africa market (other than Morocco itself)? I would have thought that SN would be a more significant competitor of AF to Africa than AT but that is far from new. Incidentally, I don't recall AF ever having had a "de facto monopoly" on most routes from Europe to Africa, especially West Africa (O&D traffic to/from Paris is a different matter, naturally).
Nov 21, 2018, 6:34 am
#1778
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,362
I am just afraid that they point to two other carriers that are financially MUCH more successful: BA and Lufthansa. And will argue that one has 2-2-2 config (Lufthansa), and the other one has the flying equivalent of a field camp. Benchmarking to the bottom where it suits them
Nov 21, 2018, 6:36 am
#1779
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Paris and around the WW
Programs: AF/KLM Club2000 Ultimate / M&M HON Circle / ALL Diamond / Hertz President Circle
Posts: 1,039
When flying around 80 flights a year (long and mid-range), I always prioritize the fact of having, from CDG, direct flights to almost every destinations to save as much time as possible
And regarding the destinations I am travelling to (mainly Canada, Brésil, Mexico & Europe), AF is one of the most convenient if I do not want to have 4 or 5 membership programs to play with... despite their "excellent" way to treat their best clients...
Nov 21, 2018, 10:59 am
#1780
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
well, I have bad news for them considering what I rerouted personally and for my company... it will be visible in their Annual Report
Nov 21, 2018, 12:19 pm
#1781
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Paris and around the WW
Programs: AF/KLM Club2000 Ultimate / M&M HON Circle / ALL Diamond / Hertz President Circle
Posts: 1,039
Which airline are you going with ?
Nov 21, 2018, 1:42 pm
#1783
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 191
Nov 21, 2018, 1:50 pm
#1784
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Paris and around the WW
Programs: AF/KLM Club2000 Ultimate / M&M HON Circle / ALL Diamond / Hertz President Circle
Posts: 1,039
There is...
I am actually negotiating a contract with them for my company to have special fares for my employees and myself.
Even though the yearly spent might seem extremely low (between 70 & 90 K€), I feel that this "secured business" might be interesting for AF !
This is a big mess...
Impossible to have clear info, the departments are not talking to each other, everyone is telling me about different benefits, no one seems to know about Ulti program...
I am actually negotiating a contract with them for my company to have special fares for my employees and myself.
Even though the yearly spent might seem extremely low (between 70 & 90 K€), I feel that this "secured business" might be interesting for AF !
This is a big mess...
Impossible to have clear info, the departments are not talking to each other, everyone is telling me about different benefits, no one seems to know about Ulti program...
Nov 21, 2018, 1:58 pm
#1785
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,906
There is...
I am actually negotiating a contract with them for my company to have special fares for my employees and myself.
Even though the yearly spent might seem extremely low (between 70 & 90 K€), I feel that this "secured business" might be interesting for AF !
This is a big mess...
Impossible to have clear info, the departments are not talking to each other, everyone is telling me about different benefits, no one seems to know about Ulti program...
I am actually negotiating a contract with them for my company to have special fares for my employees and myself.
Even though the yearly spent might seem extremely low (between 70 & 90 K€), I feel that this "secured business" might be interesting for AF !
This is a big mess...
Impossible to have clear info, the departments are not talking to each other, everyone is telling me about different benefits, no one seems to know about Ulti program...
Just curious : is Ultimate really relevant for you ? I mean 70-90 KE splitted on several persons (I assume) makes it unlikely to have people eligible for Ulti ? And what kind of different departments should talk to each other ? Because the commercial team should be your sole interlocutor. Sorry if I am wrong, I am just curious and, of course, feel free to not satisfy my curiosity.