May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: Goldorak
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE
Main facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
Paris ORY
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to reportMain facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
- Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding
- Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign.
- Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone (on the left of terminal). Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line).
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
- Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
Paris ORY
- Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding
Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report
Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed
Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report
Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report
Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report
Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report
Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request
Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report
Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report
Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report
Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment
United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report
NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report
USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge.
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only / terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs),
- JFK (KL only / terminal 4) : no special treatments to report.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porsche transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge
Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival
CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff (inconsistently provided).
- SCL: as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in, pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously
ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report.
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to private (crew) security, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report
CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure
MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report
AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: escort on arrival through immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status
Nov 27, 2017, 8:48 am
#886
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,049
More and more airlines offer less and less upgrades . Even US carriers who used to update massively their frequent travelers (especially onto domestic "First"), have dramatically reduced this opportunity.
Indeed Airlines offer now customized offers for upgrades at a "limited" cost a few days before the departure . There are as well more and more auctions where PAX can set in advance what they are willing to pay for enhanced seats.
As a results premiums cabins are more crowded.
As far as Air France is concerned they do prefer upgrading silver or gold versus platinum or Ultimate who are already locked like a fish at a hook.
Indeed Airlines offer now customized offers for upgrades at a "limited" cost a few days before the departure . There are as well more and more auctions where PAX can set in advance what they are willing to pay for enhanced seats.
As a results premiums cabins are more crowded.
As far as Air France is concerned they do prefer upgrading silver or gold versus platinum or Ultimate who are already locked like a fish at a hook.
Nov 27, 2017, 8:54 am
#887
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
More and more airlines offer less and less upgrades . Even US carriers who used to update massively their frequent travelers (especially onto domestic "First"), have dramatically reduced this opportunity.
Indeed Airlines offer now customized offers for upgrades at a "limited" cost a few days before the departure . There are as well more and more auctions where PAX can set in advance what they are willing to pay for enhanced seats.
As a results premiums cabins are more crowded.
As far as Air France is concerned they do prefer upgrading silver or gold versus platinum or Ultimate who are already locked like a fish at a hook.
Indeed Airlines offer now customized offers for upgrades at a "limited" cost a few days before the departure . There are as well more and more auctions where PAX can set in advance what they are willing to pay for enhanced seats.
As a results premiums cabins are more crowded.
As far as Air France is concerned they do prefer upgrading silver or gold versus platinum or Ultimate who are already locked like a fish at a hook.
Nov 27, 2017, 9:46 am
#888
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
There are a few things AFKL could do:
1) Give ULTIs lots of upgrade certificates that can be used for any fare, but limited to award class availability
2) Give ULTI a few upgrade certificates, not bound by award availability (BA style)
3) Make sure ULTIs are the first ones to be upgraded when necessary, instead of other pax or instead of F&F
AFKL could at least make sure 3) happens. Do they? I haven't read many upgrade stories in this ULTI thread. Number 2) would not be completely unrealistic either.
As a M&M SEN you get 2 upgrade vouchers per year. For one intercontinental leg 2 vouchers are required. So basically you can upgrade one longhaul leg per year, if there is space for awards or on standby. Not really generous.
As a M&M HON you get 6 vouchers for every requalification, i.e. 2 years. Availability is some magic formula, i.e. not entirely based on award availability. But standbys have a good chance to clear. Not much more generous.
But HONs and then SENs are clearly #1 and #2 on the upgrade list for most (all?) LH group companies. And upgrades are not crazily expensive when bought for miles, i.e. they don't cost as much as the award itself.
AFKL is even poorer, and they rub it in when their F&F are upgraded. But since you mention the LH example, they are not much better with vouchers.
1) Give ULTIs lots of upgrade certificates that can be used for any fare, but limited to award class availability
2) Give ULTI a few upgrade certificates, not bound by award availability (BA style)
3) Make sure ULTIs are the first ones to be upgraded when necessary, instead of other pax or instead of F&F
AFKL could at least make sure 3) happens. Do they? I haven't read many upgrade stories in this ULTI thread. Number 2) would not be completely unrealistic either.
I still see the upgrade certificates as a published and given perk of Delta's (Skyteam partner) or LH's (competitor easily to switch to) program.
As a M&M HON you get 6 vouchers for every requalification, i.e. 2 years. Availability is some magic formula, i.e. not entirely based on award availability. But standbys have a good chance to clear. Not much more generous.
But HONs and then SENs are clearly #1 and #2 on the upgrade list for most (all?) LH group companies. And upgrades are not crazily expensive when bought for miles, i.e. they don't cost as much as the award itself.
AFKL is even poorer, and they rub it in when their F&F are upgraded. But since you mention the LH example, they are not much better with vouchers.
Nov 27, 2017, 10:13 am
#889
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: France
Programs: FB Plat for Life, UAMP, BAEC, Accor ALL Platinum, Marriott silver, Hilton, Meliá silver.
Posts: 3,120
(...) 3) Make sure ULTIs are the first ones to be upgraded when necessary, instead of other pax or instead of F&F
AFKL could at least make sure 3) happens. Do they? I haven't read many upgrade stories in this ULTI thread. Number 2) would not be completely unrealistic either.
AFKL could at least make sure 3) happens. Do they? I haven't read many upgrade stories in this ULTI thread. Number 2) would not be completely unrealistic either.
Many of them believe that the main purpose of this airline is to benefit its pilots (first and foremost) and then its employees. Remember the calamitous Pierre Henry Gourgeon, who despite being paid over € 2,000,000 p.a. fro failing then receiving € 1,500,000 severance pay, did not hesitate to ask for the tickets he was entitled to : € 24 for a ticket to Mauritius in business class.
He had to cancel due to public outcry but would still benefit from retired staff special tariff. He saw nothing indecent with that. His attitude is very representative of AF's management.
Not so long ago, it was almost as if PAX were a necessary nuisance who finance the fuel to get them from one point to the other. This is slowly changing, especially on the part of FA's, many of whom take their job seriously (not all though).
But foregoing priority upgrades for F&F would be like blasphemy to most AF staff.
Nov 27, 2017, 12:25 pm
#890
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, JetBlue Mosaic, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska MVP Gold.
Posts: 1,962
Yeah, agreed on all points carnarvon. It's a rotten culture, and I don't think anything can be done to change it absent major management changes.
Nov 27, 2017, 12:58 pm
#891
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geneva
Programs: LX SEN, AFKL Platinum, BA Bronze,
Posts: 5,633
There are a few things AFKL could do:
1) Give ULTIs lots of upgrade certificates that can be used for any fare, but limited to award class availability
2) Give ULTI a few upgrade certificates, not bound by award availability (BA style)
3) Make sure ULTIs are the first ones to be upgraded when necessary, instead of other pax or instead of F&F
AFKL could at least make sure 3) happens. Do they? I haven't read many upgrade stories in this ULTI thread. Number 2) would not be completely unrealistic either.
As a M&M SEN you get 2 upgrade vouchers per year. For one intercontinental leg 2 vouchers are required. So basically you can upgrade one longhaul leg per year, if there is space for awards or on standby. Not really generous.
As a M&M HON you get 6 vouchers for every requalification, i.e. 2 years. Availability is some magic formula, i.e. not entirely based on award availability. But standbys have a good chance to clear. Not much more generous.
But HONs and then SENs are clearly #1 and #2 on the upgrade list for most (all?) LH group companies. And upgrades are not crazily expensive when bought for miles, i.e. they don't cost as much as the award itself.
AFKL is even poorer, and they rub it in when their F&F are upgraded. But since you mention the LH example, they are not much better with vouchers.
1) Give ULTIs lots of upgrade certificates that can be used for any fare, but limited to award class availability
2) Give ULTI a few upgrade certificates, not bound by award availability (BA style)
3) Make sure ULTIs are the first ones to be upgraded when necessary, instead of other pax or instead of F&F
AFKL could at least make sure 3) happens. Do they? I haven't read many upgrade stories in this ULTI thread. Number 2) would not be completely unrealistic either.
As a M&M SEN you get 2 upgrade vouchers per year. For one intercontinental leg 2 vouchers are required. So basically you can upgrade one longhaul leg per year, if there is space for awards or on standby. Not really generous.
As a M&M HON you get 6 vouchers for every requalification, i.e. 2 years. Availability is some magic formula, i.e. not entirely based on award availability. But standbys have a good chance to clear. Not much more generous.
But HONs and then SENs are clearly #1 and #2 on the upgrade list for most (all?) LH group companies. And upgrades are not crazily expensive when bought for miles, i.e. they don't cost as much as the award itself.
AFKL is even poorer, and they rub it in when their F&F are upgraded. But since you mention the LH example, they are not much better with vouchers.
Even less generous, although still more than on AFKL. And so, here like in many other areas, SEN beats Plat and HON beats ULT by miles (pun intended).
Nov 27, 2017, 1:48 pm
#892
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: France
Programs: FB Plat for Life, UAMP, BAEC, Accor ALL Platinum, Marriott silver, Hilton, Meliá silver.
Posts: 3,120
The one precondition (necessary but unfortunately not enough) is that the French state sells all the AF shares they own,
Nov 27, 2017, 3:04 pm
#893
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,922
There are a few things AFKL could do:
1) Give ULTIs lots of upgrade certificates that can be used for any fare, but limited to award class availability
2) Give ULTI a few upgrade certificates, not bound by award availability (BA style)
3) Make sure ULTIs are the first ones to be upgraded when necessary, instead of other pax or instead of F&F
1) Give ULTIs lots of upgrade certificates that can be used for any fare, but limited to award class availability
2) Give ULTI a few upgrade certificates, not bound by award availability (BA style)
3) Make sure ULTIs are the first ones to be upgraded when necessary, instead of other pax or instead of F&F
)2) could be easy to implement, with eventual restrictions to availability in the following (revenue) booking fares : A for PE, Z and I for Business and F for First.
3) for sure
And, for Ulti, we can give credit to the AF side of the force that they have done way much better than their KL counterpart who has been quite miserable based on the reports we had here. I haven't flown KL for a while, but I have a long-haul in J booked with them in january, so will see.
Nov 27, 2017, 4:30 pm
#894
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Reading the recent messages on this thread, I cannot prevent myself and ask — why did AFKL start the Ultimate program? What was the impetus? It is no longer clear to me, as I am sure it is not for many of us.
Macaron54
Nov 27, 2017, 6:14 pm
#895
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
Thanks Macaron54 for clarifying that. What I was actually wondering about were operational upgrades for instance for overbooked flights. Would Ultimates systematically be the first to be upgraded? Or would those upgrades go to other passengers by the algorithm, or to friends and family in any case?
Nov 27, 2017, 9:15 pm
#896
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,347
Here is the problem with this program and how it has been implemented. In almost 900 posts, I do not think I have seen anyone even once say something like, "Gee, that's an AWESOME level/status, I'm really going to throw extra spend at AFKL in order to get it." Not one. Instead it has been AFKL's best passengers generally complaining about how at first it is not that much and that the "benefits" are not even provided 80% of the time. That is a big problem for AFKL, because if one looks atAA CK, DL 360, BA Premiere, LH Hons, EK Plat or I/O, etc, you see a lot of people striving for these levels. None of that here.
Nov 27, 2017, 11:27 pm
#898
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,049
On specific routes (with crap cabin configurations (COI) or old J configuration) or where I have to experience a transfer at CDG, I book now other airlines and I sent per mail to AF my reservation as proof that we are not so locked as they could thought .
Nov 28, 2017, 1:15 am
#899
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Programs: FB LTPE, BAEC GGL, EK Blue, SK Gold, Marriott Amb+LTT, IHG Diamond Amb, Accorhotels Silver
Posts: 1,954
Thanks Macaron54 for clarifying that. What I was actually wondering about were operational upgrades for instance for overbooked flights. Would Ultimates systematically be the first to be upgraded? Or would those upgrades go to other passengers by the algorithm, or to friends and family in any case?
For instance: Platinum Ultimate / Club 2000 - Skipper / Lifetime Platinum / Platinum / Gold / Silver / Petroleum / Ivory / No Status.
This is what the machine does.
For F&F, it is fairly different as everything happens onboard. Don't be mistaken: I think it is normal for employees to get deeply discounted tickets as it is a benefit per their employment terms. But if they want to fly Business Class, they have "GP" fares in Business Class for a fraction of what we usually pay (even if they will find it too expensive!). Or "upgradable" fares based on availability. When everything is done by the book, I am fine. But upgrading GPs onboard based on handing a 5€ chocolate box to the crew in front of Platinum or Ultimate passengers is offensive to me.
Nov 28, 2017, 1:51 am
#900
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
What has always been communicated by AF management is that opups are processed first by status and then by booking class (considering the PAX has not been upgraded from a lower cabin already)
For instance: Platinum Ultimate / Club 2000 - Skipper / Lifetime Platinum / Platinum / Gold / Silver / Petroleum / Ivory / No Status.
This is what the machine does.
For instance: Platinum Ultimate / Club 2000 - Skipper / Lifetime Platinum / Platinum / Gold / Silver / Petroleum / Ivory / No Status.
This is what the machine does.