Old May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: sehgalanuj
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE

Main facts
Ultimate is not a status in FB but a « tag » on Platinum / Platinum for life / Club 2000 – Skipper existing status.
While regular FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning

XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).

To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main

New 03/2023 : a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.

Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR(lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here). Note that we had several reports in 2022 showing that SP benefits are not granted in practice to travel companions.
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.

Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :

AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)

Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)

Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C

KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C

Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.

Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrade on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY apps.

Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.

Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.

Please complete/edit this list as needed.

AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Otherwise no special treatment to report, apart pre-boarding sometimes granted – Shame on KL !!!

Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
  • Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding Escort confirmed to be provided as of October 2nd 2023
  • Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign. On occasions, ADP staff refuse entry despite show of ULTI boarding pass/status card. Lane confirmed functioning as of October 5th, 2023 (unmanned line)
- CDG 2F :
  • Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone. Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line). Escort confirmed to be provided as of October 5th, 2023
  • Arrival : no special treatment to report
- CDG 2G :
  • Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
  • Arrival : no special treatment to report
- CDG 2C :
  • Arrival lounge : higher priority for a shower (Note : 2C arrival lounge definitely closed)
- CDG in connection : expedited transfer, possibly involving limo transfer, can be arranged upon request in case of short or endangered connection. Rarely provided spontaneously (need to call the TA, but acceptance is never guaranteed).

Paris ORY
  • Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
  • Arrival : no special treatment to report

EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report

Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)

Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.

Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report

France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to report
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs" for most recent update
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs" for most recent update
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
- UIP: no special treatment to report

Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding

Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report

Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed

Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report

Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report

Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs" for most recent update

Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report

Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report

Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request

Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report

Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report

Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report

Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment

United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report

NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report

USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge + extra attentions from staff (table reserved for night service, etc)
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only/terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs), possible to benefit from the "night service" on all flights and not only the 2 last ones ex-JFK (update 09/2023 : no more night service in JFK lounge). Some kind of priority at the La Prairie spa (after P pax). KL flight no special treatments to report and access to Delta Sky Lounge at T4. Update as of 17th December 2022: dinner service not always offered, subject to whether the staff knows about this or not.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porshe transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge

Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival

CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff
- SCL: no special treatment to report; as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in (not used), pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously

ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report (escort through security from check-in to lounge is now systematically refused, while provided during the 2 first years of Ulti)
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report


CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure

MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report

AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: Escort on arrival though immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)


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Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status

Old Sep 1, 2018, 4:51 pm
  #1426  
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Posts: 21,794
Originally Posted by Pamplona
By the way, do we know / can we guess how many passengers « enjoy » this ULTI status???
200? 1000? 5000???
AFAIK, around 1000-1200.
Goldorak is offline  
Old Sep 1, 2018, 11:44 pm
  #1427  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
AFAIK, around 1000-1200.
worldwide ? Seems not too many
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Old Sep 2, 2018, 1:59 am
  #1428  
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Originally Posted by Jean97
worldwide ? Seems not too many
yes, worldwide. But the great majority are very likely in FR and NL, and possibly BE.
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Goldorak is offline  
Old Sep 2, 2018, 2:25 am
  #1429  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 364
Here is one of the points we worked out earlier as well already:

Whereas for AF there is a 'carrot' of potentially being upgraded to P which still gives a balance for (major) flaws within the ULTi service catalogue and potentially makes you still choose for AF.

For KL however, if you already fly in C, such upgrades to P are not possible, hence you are really looking for the plain benefits of ULTI in service, attention, etc. If then those are not coming, there is literally 0 extra benefit coming from ULTI, especially giving the current situation at the lounges in AMS.
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Old Sep 2, 2018, 5:11 am
  #1430  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Originally Posted by travelbits
Here is one of the points we worked out earlier as well already:

Whereas for AF there is a 'carrot' of potentially being upgraded to P which still gives a balance for (major) flaws within the ULTi service catalogue and potentially makes you still choose for AF.

For KL however, if you already fly in C, such upgrades to P are not possible, hence you are really looking for the plain benefits of ULTI in service, attention, etc. If then those are not coming, there is literally 0 extra benefit coming from ULTI, especially giving the current situation at the lounges in AMS.


Let me play the devil's advocate here. While I understand that the Ultimate program management has not yet succeeded in having the KL staff at AMS cower and heed their directives (resulting in a gross imbalance with CDG), the promised benefits are offered at outstations (at least at a number of them), and come in different flavors. ORD remains my top one in terms of service, with expedited TSA and ProVision scanner clearance, and table reservation at the crammed third-party lounge. At BOS, the deal with the TSAs must be somewhat different, line-cutting being less systematic. At HKG, the escort service is just as effective, though the sparse PAXs at immigration and security every time I went through them makes it difficult to assess whether the staff working on behalf of AF is empowered to jump the line. At PEK, no line cutting for passport control, but expedited scanner clearance by means of a certificate handed at check-in time. At CAN, in the event of a short connection, both passport-control and scanner lines are jumped. At SCL, none of the above, but a (useless) escort throughout the security filters, reminiscent of a meet & greet service at CDG without any vehicle. In short, zero advantage. All in all, depending on the airport, the gain in time can be considerable (a solid hour sometimes at ORD), or simply nil, but I would not go as far as saying that the benefit of being Ultimate is zero. Just uneven and inconsistent, as we have all experienced it.
Macaron54 is offline  
Old Sep 2, 2018, 8:12 am
  #1431  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 33
Only ~20 ULTI in Belgium + Luxemburg with the first promotion...
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Old Sep 2, 2018, 9:14 am
  #1432  
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For someone who will now never reach Ulti but periodically fly AF, that thread is fascinating.
I remember reading that Ulti came with some confirmed upgrade certificates (or whatever they are called). Has this been discontinued? No one seems mentioning them as an Ulti benefit. Many airlines have such benefit for their top tier (even below Ulti), so I assume AF followed the trend.
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Old Sep 2, 2018, 9:20 am
  #1433  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by brunos
For someone who will now never reach Ulti but periodically fly AF, that thread is fascinating.
I remember reading that Ulti came with some confirmed upgrade certificates (or whatever they are called). Has this been discontinued? No one seems mentioning them as an Ulti benefit. Many airlines have such benefit for their top tier (even below Ulti), so I assume AF followed the trend.
They exist. But only for upgrades from Y to J. Pointless for some.
San Gottardo is online now  
Old Sep 2, 2018, 9:21 am
  #1434  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by Macaron54

Let me play the devil's advocate here. While I understand that the Ultimate program management has not yet succeeded in having the KL staff at AMS cower and heed their directives (resulting in a gross imbalance with CDG), the promised benefits are offered at outstations (at least at a number of them), and come in different flavors. ORD remains my top one in terms of service, with expedited TSA and ProVision scanner clearance, and table reservation at the crammed third-party lounge. At BOS, the deal with the TSAs must be somewhat different, line-cutting being less systematic. At HKG, the escort service is just as effective, though the sparse PAXs at immigration and security every time I went through them makes it difficult to assess whether the staff working on behalf of AF is empowered to jump the line. At PEK, no line cutting for passport control, but expedited scanner clearance by means of a certificate handed at check-in time. At CAN, in the event of a short connection, both passport-control and scanner lines are jumped. At SCL, none of the above, but a (useless) escort throughout the security filters, reminiscent of a meet & greet service at CDG without any vehicle. In short, zero advantage. All in all, depending on the airport, the gain in time can be considerable (a solid hour sometimes at ORD), or simply nil, but I would not go as far as saying that the benefit of being Ultimate is zero. Just uneven and inconsistent, as we have all experienced it.
The question remains whether these benefits are attractive enough to justify privileging AFKL to the level of 1,800 XPs in order to obtain the status and have access to the benefits.
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Old Sep 2, 2018, 10:27 am
  #1435  
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Originally Posted by brunos
For someone who will now never reach Ulti but periodically fly AF, that thread is fascinating.
I remember reading that Ulti came with some confirmed upgrade certificates (or whatever they are called). Has this been discontinued? No one seems mentioning them as an Ulti benefit. Many airlines have such benefit for their top tier (even below Ulti), so I assume AF followed the trend.
If you have the patience and time, just go back in this thread and they were announced and discussed. 2 upgrades certificates/year, valid for the Ultimate member or one of his/her listed companion. It was introduced this year. Valid from Y or W to J. Very easy to use (very few restrictions) and guaranteed instant upgrade at the time of booking. This is certainly a nice benefit. One can regret it's only 2.
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Old Sep 2, 2018, 1:15 pm
  #1436  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
The question remains whether these benefits are attractive enough to justify privileging AFKL to the level of 1,800 XPs in order to obtain the status and have access to the benefits.

Let me play again the devil's advocate here, and ask whether LH HON circle and DL Diamond/360 were what they are today when they were launched, or did they go through a learning curve to eventually meet the needs of the top-tier customers of the airline. You are absolutely right inasmuch as 1,800 UXPs represent a massive number of flights with AFKL, and the benefits have been hitherto below expectation, notably in terms of consistency. I am ready, however, to bite the bullet and give it a chance to see where this is going. The hope is that the Ultimate program will progressively align with its competitors, offering more perks and freebees (additional upgrade certificates and the like).
Macaron54 is offline  
Old Sep 3, 2018, 1:57 am
  #1437  
 
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Originally Posted by Macaron54
Let me play again the devil's advocate here, and ask whether LH HON circle and DL Diamond/360 were what they are today when they were launched, or did they go through a learning curve to eventually meet the needs of the top-tier customers of the airline. .
I cannot tell you anything about Delta. For M&M HON Circle, they actually got it right from the start. All the main elements - First Class Lounges and First Class Terminal, car service, booking guarantee, upgrade vouchers, escort service, being on top of op-up lists, generosity with after sales complaints - were in place right from the start. There were changes afterwards, but actually they took things away! The one thing most people missed - and still miss - was the best call centre any airline could have with a dedicated HON team, the famous "Kassel team". My God, they were good. Complex itineraries, little tricks and quirks with fares and bookings - they knew all the tricks, and had great fun "collaborating" with passengers on tricky problems. I sent them flowers and boxes of chocolate every year and on several other occasions. They knew many of the passengers. Since Kassel went, the Lufthansa line seems to be the normal SEN line just with faster response time (which is still great: usually after one or two tings). I've since used the LX line more often, they are close to what Kassel used to be.

But other things went away as well: the 50% earnings premium, earning HON miles on UA/US (this was in the early days, when US was still part of the LH/UA trans-Atlantic alliance), most (all?) of the Hotel status partnerships (HONs had highest status on Hyatt, Hilton, Kempinski, etc), free newspaper subscriptions (Financial Times, many other European papers and magazines). And, more radically: some years into the program, when the airlines feared that it was becoming too crowded or had already become too crowded, they changed the qualification criteria. The number of HON Circle miles to qualify was still 600,000 over two years, but now only First Class and Business Class tickets counted towards the status. Under the old scheme this was the equivalent of 70 flights in Business Class from Frankfurt to New York, or 240 intra-Europe flights in the higher priced Business Class buckets. Few people ever qualified with only Economy Class flights, but many were those who had a healthy mix of premium and Economy flights to reach the qualification level. Some new things were introduced as well, for instance a private entrance at ZRH airport, which all pax leaving from Switzerland greatly appreciate. Another nice gesture: there were two years where at the end of the year LH made a gift of 30,000 HON miles to every member, because those had been strike years. The logic was that people could not fly LH as much as they might have wanted to, so the airline wanted to be "fair" and thus gave 10% of the yearly requirement as a gift.

As a data point: there never was a "roll over scheme". Your HON Circle miles reset to zero at the start of the calendar year. And - funnily enough for people who also follow this thread and who are used to the roll-over scheme that exist also for lower levels in Flying Blue - nobody ever complained about that.

There were a couple of threads over in the LH forum complaining about how HON had become less attractive, about 4-5 years ago. However, these days, few criticisms of the structure or working or benefits of the HON programme. Criticisms about how certain services are delivered - e.g., the escorts in some airports are deemed useless - and from DYKWIAs, who complain about having to share their limo ride to the plane with others, or even - shocking! - use a van instead of the Mercedes S Class or the Porsche Panamera. Many are in the same place as I: it could be (significantly) improved in a number of ways, but when I look at alternatives - FB ULTI would be one as Paris is one of my home bases - then I realize that M&M HON is still by far the best thing around. I would never ever re-direct any travel to AFKL only to obtain ULTI, the benefits in terms of making my travel more efficient and comfortable are just laughable (however, the reason I still watch this thread is to keep an eye on whether it develops into something I would find attractive). For HON however, I do make sure that I requalify (I usually do anyway), it's something that I would not like to miss. If you ask the question from an airline perspective of who has succeeded in loyalising passengers: LH/LX definitely have. AFKL, you tell me. I think I see some cracks in the front of enthusiasm.

Thus, after this long look back in history, to answer your question: yes, in terms of benefits, M&M HON Circle did get things right, right from the beginning.
San Gottardo is online now  
Old Sep 3, 2018, 6:33 pm
  #1438  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: France
Programs: LH Senator, AF/KL Platinum Ultimate, Le Club Accor Hotels Diamond, Nordic Choice Hotels Platinum
Posts: 59
San Gottardo, your post was a perfect resumee of the situation with HON! To make it short from my side: they understood from the very beginning what very frequent travellers need the most: comfort! The limousine service, 1st class lounge, and fast track with escort. All others are just a nice to have.

I had a guy sharing the same Porsche Panamera with me a few weeks ago, and who didn’t stop complaining that it’s a shame to share cars when being HON. I told him that being ULTI at AFKL he would share a bus with 100 other passengers. He just replied: « AFKL? You seriously fly with them? ». While being arrogant, I think he was very clear in his explanation. They are only a few airlines in the world who are able to provide the very high end service a very frequent traveller needs, and obvioulsy LH Group is one of them, while AFKL is not. I would personally add SQ to that list.

Pity that I will probably loose the HON status by the end of the year. I will seriously miss it...

... while I would not miss anything from ULTI back to Platinum when being a frequent KL traveller.
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Old Sep 4, 2018, 4:20 am
  #1439  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,831
Originally Posted by Pamplona
... the situation with HON! To make it short from my side: they understood from the very beginning what very frequent travellers need the most: comfort!
To be honest, for me the "comfort" part is secondary to the "efficiency" part. A close second, but second. Knowing that I'll have a seat on the plane that I need to take thanks to booking guarantee, that I won't have to spend a long time in some line (check-in, security, immigration), the fact of not having to spend time on buses (thanks to limo in some places), the fact of knowing that even when I am pressed for time I can get something decent to eat. The "comfort" is obviously close second, but frankly as long as I can go through security with two people ahead of me instead of 20 or 200, then I care less if the lounge after security has a large whiskey bar or if the scrambled eggs have truffles in them.

And this is the one observation I have often about AF: they are doing a great job on comfort/luxury/aesthetics, but less so on efficiency. As an example: the cuisine and design of their Premiere Salon beats *any* of the First Class Terminals/FCLs of Lufthansa, Swiss and Austrian out of the ballpark (with the possible exception of the terrace of the FCL in Zurich with the great view on the Alps). But then compare the journey: to use the Premiere Lounge in Paris I need to battle on the access road to Terminal 2E, walk through the terminal building to the "check-in lounge", where I have to wait for some paper checks. Then walk even more - albeit with an escort - show passport, go through security, walk to the lounge. The entire thing takes 15-20 minutes. Compare that to the FCT: separate building, separate access road, the escort takes you right from the car to the security filter which is less than 10 meters from the car, they take your passport and the checks happen in the background, and you're in. Takes 2 minutes. Similar thing at Zurich with its dedicated entrance to the First Class Lounge in Terminal A: you don't even get to step on any of the air-side real estate used by "normal" passengers. I have turned up for intercontinental flights at FRA 30 minutes before departure, and it wasn't a problem. I have turned up 1h 10minutes at the Premiere counter in 2E, and they all made sourly faces and in the lounge did not miss an opportunity to point out to me with an almost reprimanding tone that I wouldn't have enough time to use this or that offering in the lounge. They couldn't imagine that I don't give a toss about the spa or the bar and that all I wanted was to spend as little time as possible from door to door between Paris and wherever I was going. The AF philosophy works great if you have time to indulge in all the luxury and comfort, but if you travel so much it wears off and you start caring more about going through the airport quickly than about the luxury of what in the end is just a lounge - where "lounge" is just a word to say "a less unpleasant place to be neither where you want to be (home, work, ...) nor what brings you closer to where you want to go (on the plane)".

In that sense, what would make ULTI more attractive to me would be to have an ULTI channel/escort at security and passport at every terminal, even if I fly with my family on an award ticket in Economy to Toulon or Lorient. Upgrade vouchers? Yeah, nice to have. But I'll trade time savings 200 times a year against comfort twice a year. I think if I told my wife that she can see me 30 minutes longer before/after every trip she would pay me the upgrade in cash every time. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't take the upgrade vouchers, but they matter less.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old Sep 4, 2018, 4:45 am
  #1440  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Singapore
Programs: FB PFL, ALL Diamond, Marriott Ambassador, EK PLAT, Air Caraďbes Diam, SQ PPS, ̷IHG Diam
Posts: 97
1st class AF Lounge

Originally Posted by San Gottardo
To be honest, for me the "comfort" part is secondary to the "efficiency" part. A close second, but second. Knowing that I'll have a seat on the plane that I need to take thanks to booking guarantee, that I won't have to spend a long time in some line (check-in, security, immigration), the fact of not having to spend time on buses (thanks to limo in some places), the fact of knowing that even when I am pressed for time I can get something decent to eat. The "comfort" is obviously close second, but frankly as long as I can go through security with two people ahead of me instead of 20 or 200, then I care less if the lounge after security has a large whiskey bar or if the scrambled eggs have truffles in them.

And this is the one observation I have often about AF: they are doing a great job on comfort/luxury/aesthetics, but less so on efficiency. As an example: the cuisine and design of their Premiere Salon beats *any* of the First Class Terminals/FCLs of Lufthansa, Swiss and Austrian out of the ballpark (with the possible exception of the terrace of the FCL in Zurich with the great view on the Alps). But then compare the journey: to use the Premiere Lounge in Paris I need to battle on the access road to Terminal 2E, walk through the terminal building to the "check-in lounge", where I have to wait for some paper checks. Then walk even more - albeit with an escort - show passport, go through security, walk to the lounge. The entire thing takes 15-20 minutes. Compare that to the FCT: separate building, separate access road, the escort takes you right from the car to the security filter which is less than 10 meters from the car, they take your passport and the checks happen in the background, and you're in. Takes 2 minutes. Similar thing at Zurich with its dedicated entrance to the First Class Lounge in Terminal A: you don't even get to step on any of the air-side real estate used by "normal" passengers. I have turned up for intercontinental flights at FRA 30 minutes before departure, and it wasn't a problem. I have turned up 1h 10minutes at the Premiere counter in 2E, and they all made sourly faces and in the lounge did not miss an opportunity to point out to me with an almost reprimanding tone that I wouldn't have enough time to use this or that offering in the lounge. They couldn't imagine that I don't give a toss about the spa or the bar and that all I wanted was to spend as little time as possible from door to door between Paris and wherever I was going. The AF philosophy works great if you have time to indulge in all the luxury and comfort, but if you travel so much it wears off and you start caring more about going through the airport quickly than about the luxury of what in the end is just a lounge - where "lounge" is just a word to say "a less unpleasant place to be neither where you want to be (home, work, ...) nor what brings you closer to where you want to go (on the plane)".

In that sense, what would make ULTI more attractive to me would be to have an ULTI channel/escort at security and passport at every terminal, even if I fly with my family on an award ticket in Economy to Toulon or Lorient. Upgrade vouchers? Yeah, nice to have. But I'll trade time savings 200 times a year against comfort twice a year. I think if I told my wife that she can see me 30 minutes longer before/after every trip she would pay me the upgrade in cash every time. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't take the upgrade vouchers, but they matter less.

Just my 2 cents.
i do agree totally with your analysis, not the conclusions. I have been living in Singapore, where efficiency of Changi airport is legendary. To improve even more efficiency, Singapore Airlines 1st class dedicated entrance, with dedicated immigration officer and lounge access 3mn walking distance is what you are looking for. It is accessible to 1st class passengers of course but also to PPS members ( the elite status of Singapore Airlines) . In between 5 and 10 mn you can arrive at the terminal and rest at the lounge, anytime. On the other side in Paris you are right , 1st class AF lounge is the best in the world, because it is small and exclusive, with outstanding food and wine by Mr Ducasse , and a spa with 30’ complimentary ( just 15’ at Emirates lounge in Dubai) , but indeed an arrival and a process to checkin and to screen at 2E pretty long. But for me it is not a real problem due to traffic jams to reach CDG,, and thus the need to leave my office at least 3 or 4 hrs before. So , I have decided now to arrive 6 hours before takeoff, to work in the lounge and enjoy food and spa to relax.

So for me the best perks that could give AF to its Ultimate customers would be an access to 1st class lounges and escorting.

but I am not Ultimate ( and do not plan to be) , so ....
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