Old May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: sehgalanuj
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE

Main facts
Ultimate is not a status in FB but a « tag » on Platinum / Platinum for life / Club 2000 – Skipper existing status.
While regular FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning

XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).

To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main

New 03/2023 : a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.

Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR(lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here). Note that we had several reports in 2022 showing that SP benefits are not granted in practice to travel companions.
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.

Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :

AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)

Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)

Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C

KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C

Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.

Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrade on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY apps.

Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.

Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.

Please complete/edit this list as needed.

AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Otherwise no special treatment to report, apart pre-boarding sometimes granted – Shame on KL !!!

Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
  • Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding Escort confirmed to be provided as of October 2nd 2023
  • Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign. On occasions, ADP staff refuse entry despite show of ULTI boarding pass/status card. Lane confirmed functioning as of October 5th, 2023 (unmanned line)
- CDG 2F :
  • Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone. Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line). Escort confirmed to be provided as of October 5th, 2023
  • Arrival : no special treatment to report
- CDG 2G :
  • Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
  • Arrival : no special treatment to report
- CDG 2C :
  • Arrival lounge : higher priority for a shower (Note : 2C arrival lounge definitely closed)
- CDG in connection : expedited transfer, possibly involving limo transfer, can be arranged upon request in case of short or endangered connection. Rarely provided spontaneously (need to call the TA, but acceptance is never guaranteed).

Paris ORY
  • Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
  • Arrival : no special treatment to report

EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report

Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)

Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.

Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report

France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to report
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs" for most recent update
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs" for most recent update
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
- UIP: no special treatment to report

Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding

Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report

Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed

Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report

Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report

Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs" for most recent update

Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report

Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report

Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request

Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report

Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report

Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report

Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment

United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report

NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report

USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge + extra attentions from staff (table reserved for night service, etc)
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only/terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs), possible to benefit from the "night service" on all flights and not only the 2 last ones ex-JFK (update 09/2023 : no more night service in JFK lounge). Some kind of priority at the La Prairie spa (after P pax). KL flight no special treatments to report and access to Delta Sky Lounge at T4. Update as of 17th December 2022: dinner service not always offered, subject to whether the staff knows about this or not.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porshe transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge

Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival

CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff
- SCL: no special treatment to report; as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in (not used), pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously

ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report (escort through security from check-in to lounge is now systematically refused, while provided during the 2 first years of Ulti)
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report


CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure

MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report

AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: Escort on arrival though immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)


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Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status

Old Nov 28, 2017, 4:18 pm
  #916  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Originally Posted by Goldorak
What I can add :
- I am 100% sure that Plat Ulti is above Plat/LTPE. The top status is Club2000/Skipper Ulti
- I am reasonably sure that Plat Ulti is above “regular” Club2000/Skipper.
- I don’t know if LTPE is above Plat, but it’s possible
That would be correct, Goldorak. A chief purser recently told me about a big drama that unfolded on a flight wherein an Ultimate got op'uped over a contemptuous Club2000. I wish I could have witnessed it . In many respects, Club2000's are another embodiment of the archaic, withering system nurtured by AF for decades. Like aristocrats, they take for granted the many privileges and benefits graciously offered by the airline.

Macaron54
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Old Nov 28, 2017, 6:59 pm
  #917  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
Originally Posted by Macaron54
That would be correct, Goldorak. A chief purser recently told me about a big drama that unfolded on a flight wherein an Ultimate got op'uped over a contemptuous Club2000. I wish I could have witnessed it . In many respects, Club2000's are another embodiment of the archaic, withering system nurtured by AF for decades. Like aristocrats, they take for granted the many privileges and benefits graciously offered by the airline.

Macaron54
Very true! Although they did a massive cleanup 5 years ago. Most Club 2000 I knew then have been offered Plat for Life instead of the blue card.

Also remember that Club 2000 in not only for semi-celebrities, old fashioned TV anchors and heads of CCI in French provinces: it also targeted at travel managers.

I am much less familiar with Skipper though even if the concept of aristocracy is less surprising in a kingdom like Netherlands...
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Old Nov 29, 2017, 12:23 am
  #918  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Originally Posted by bodory
Very true! Although they did a massive cleanup 5 years ago. Most Club 2000 I knew then have been offered Plat for Life instead of the blue card. Also remember that Club 2000 in not only for semi-celebrities, old fashioned TV anchors and heads of CCI in French provinces: it also targeted at travel managers. I am much less familiar with Skipper though even if the concept of aristocracy is less surprising in a kingdom like Netherlands...
It is very possible that AF has been cleaning up its mess, but its Augean stables are huge, and its job is not quite done yet. I am fine with the idea that the airline top-revenue makers who also happen to be deciders and captains of industry be given the Club 2000 (Skipper) Utlimate status — why not? They travel continuously and funnel new customers to the airline. I find it more questionable that aristocrats who travel only very occasionally on the AFKL routes be still pampered by the way they are. It is almost indecent (and a slap to the face of the airline hyper-frequent flyers). But when it comes to indecency, as rightly noted by carnavaron, the airline is second to none.

Macaron54
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Old Nov 29, 2017, 12:46 am
  #919  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 364
Originally Posted by Goldorak
What I can add :
- I am 100% sure that Plat Ulti is above Plat/LTPE. The top status is Club2000/Skipper Ulti
- I am reasonably sure that Plat Ulti is above “regular” Club2000/Skipper.
- I don’t know if LTPE is above Plat, but it’s possible
You are most likely (hopefully) correct - what I was trying to convey is that at least on board in the app they sorting algorithm of the passenger manifest does not reflect this. That as the ULTI is not programmed in as a level, but technically as an identifier in a different DBase field. Who knows where else that pops up as problem.

On a completely different note: are the bronze letters on your ULTI card vanishing as well? Mine are gone completely already...
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Old Nov 29, 2017, 1:03 am
  #920  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,791
Originally Posted by Macaron54
I am fine with the idea that the airline top-revenue makers who also happen to be deciders and captains of industry be given the Club 2000 (Skipper) Utlimate status — why not? They travel continuously and funnel new customers to the airline.
Club2000/Skipper is attributed by AF/KL at their discretion and there is no minimum flying activity required. The Ultimate “tag” on Club2000/Skipper is not “given for free” but is obtained as per the rules we all know (360k status miles over 2 years, AF/KL/A5 Flying). So, a Club2000 Ultimate pax is a real very good customer and flies as much as a Platinum Ultimate passenger.

Originally Posted by travelbits
On a completely different note: are the bronze letters on your ULTI card vanishing as well? Mine are gone completely already...
Mine is OK.
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Old Nov 29, 2017, 1:35 am
  #921  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Originally Posted by travelbits
On a completely different note: are the bronze letters on your ULTI card vanishing as well? Mine are gone completely already...
Ah, ah, ah ... This is hilarious. Mine is in the same state. The word Ultimate is nearly gone. The letters are extremely faint. In a couple of months, they will be completely gone. Perhaps is it a sign, and the letters that form the word Ultimate are at the image of the program itself. Who knows when it too will vanish . So much for George Clooney's Up in the air graphite card!

Macaron54
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Old Nov 29, 2017, 7:22 am
  #922  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Programs: FB Plat for life, FB PC, M&M FT, Hertz President (+ many low tier cards)
Posts: 2,777
Originally Posted by San Gottardo
So then there is nothing above Platinum? With Plat-for-Life and ULTI just being two variants, not mutually exclusive, the first one for long-standing past loyalty the second for current hyper-loyalty. But Plats, all 100,000 of you, rejoice, you're at the top of the foodchain.
Of course there is something above both varieties of Platinum. At least I think that Club 2000 and subsequently the ULTI add-on are above it. My point is more that I think that both varieties of Platinum are very much the same, except for the non-need-to-renew part of plat for life.

Last edited by Zembla; Nov 29, 2017 at 7:27 am
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Old Nov 29, 2017, 12:00 pm
  #923  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,351
Originally Posted by hfly
Here is the problem with this program and how it has been implemented. In almost 900 posts, I do not think I have seen anyone even once say something like, "Gee, that's an AWESOME level/status, I'm really going to throw extra spend at AFKL in order to get it." Not one. Instead it has been AFKL's best passengers generally complaining about how at first it is not that much and that the "benefits" are not even provided 80% of the time. That is a big problem for AFKL, because if one looks atAA CK, DL 360, BA Premiere, LH Hons, EK Plat or I/O, etc, you see a lot of people striving for these levels. None of that here.
Can't speak about the non-European airlines schemes which I am less familiar but, as far as the European ones are concerned, I am not sure that I would follow you fully on this.

1) As far as BA is concerned, to start with, we are not talking about BA Premier (which is an invitation-based status rather than level-based status and would therefore be comparable to Club2000/skipper rather FB Ulti). The equivalent of Ulti in the BAEC World is GGL rather than Premier.

2) Second, I would also question the idea that schemes like FB Ulti or LH Hon or BA GGL are designed to be statuses to which one strives for (i.e. aspirational statuses). It seems to me that it is rather the opposite: they are primarily there as recognition for people who naturally tend to fly an awful lot with the airline rather than encourage incremental flying to reach the level. It seems to me that they are more about not losing a customer rather than as a driver of additional revenue. That said, it is true that there will be a number of individuals who are not the natural targeted constituency for the status and who will take steps to reach it. These are the BA GGLs that acquire their status through MRs from Europe to Hawaii, for instance. A similar phenomenon exists with LH Hons. I would have thought that this is a small constituency which is vastly over-represented on FT and reading the BA Board or the LH Board may give an over-inflated view of the significance of this, I would have thought.

3) Thirdly, if you look at GGL, the things that come with GGL proper are not that huge: essentially additional redemption availability (the so-called "jokers"); waiving of certain fees linked to awards; a dedicated team/phone number, one Gold/2 silver partner cards and Hilton Honors Diamond status. Now, clearly, all of this is better than a kick in the groin but it is hardly a game changer for an ultra-frequent flyer. I do not think that many GGL members of BAEC think, to use your turn of phrase: "Gee, that's an AWESOME level/status"* There are other benefits (viz. access to the Concorde Room when not flying first and upgrade certificates) but they are not directly linked to GGL status as such but rather linked to reaching certain additional thresholds.

4) Now, none of this takes anything away from the fact that FB Ulti is rather under-spec'd and, even worse in terms of implementation. But it does not follow from this that the aim should be to turn it into an aspirational status but rather one that delivers what its targeted audience actually needs.

*: and I do not mean that this is because Brits would be less likely to use such an American turn of phrase
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Old Nov 29, 2017, 3:12 pm
  #924  
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,323
Nick, the thing is that generally when you are talking about this level of flying, you have to be cognizant of what happens outside of just Europe as almost by definition many of those customers that we are talking about here could just as easily qualify for any program (within reason) should they choose.

1) Yes you are right, I did mean GGL rather than Premiere, my error.
2) This is where I somewhat agree. Taking myself as an example, and several people I know..........I fly enough to maintain top status on several carriers every year for quite a few years, in the good seats, with enough left over that I can push for a top level IF I WISH, While other airlines have made their ultra high levels very desirable with chauffered driven cars, extra special lounges, upgrades, etc AFKL has not done this at all. WOrse, by promising things and seemingly almost never delivering them, they are making their best customers angry. I have seen people gush about their GGL and Hons, Ultimate is an embarrassment.
3) Yes the extra upgrades, are not directly linked however you earn them lock in step with how many Tier Points you have, so someone with GGL almost

You may by definition has twice as many as someone who did not hit that threshold, even by 100 points. Similarly at least until very recently CR earning was also pretty much in lock step with GGL earning. So yes when you add these to the other things, that would make something like 5 our of 6 things that AFKL does not have.And BTW, having been GGL, I can say that it is actually not that impressive, but a hell of a lot better than AFKL's offering. I would throw an extra TA Biz trip or two to hit it, I would not do the same for Ultimate.

You may not be familiar with all the programs, but go take a look around the forums here on FT. While there are people who pooh pooh everything, you will see that many people are proud of their statuses, and others strive for them. Again no such talk here on the AFKL forums
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Old Nov 29, 2017, 3:53 pm
  #925  
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,351
Originally Posted by hfly
Nick, the thing is that generally when you are talking about this level of flying, you have to be cognizant of what happens outside of just Europe as almost by definition many of those customers that we are talking about here could just as easily qualify for any program (within reason) should they choose.
But would they? What proportions of LH Hons are not based in EMEA? Ditto for BA GGLs? And vice-versa for US airlines outside the Americas? If you are based in Paris and your travel radiates throughout the whole world, AA CK is going to be of relatively limited use to you even if you could theoretically attain it as only a fraction of your travels are going to be on AA anyway.On balance, I suspect that you would prefer something that makes your flying with AF more pleasant/bearable even if it has fewer bells and whistles than a super-duper programme on a US airline. If your traffic is mostly tatl, then clearly that is a different story, of course. Ditto with Gulf airlines, mutatis mutandis.
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Old Nov 29, 2017, 4:04 pm
  #926  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 364
If you are based in the Nordics but need good connections, KLAF or LH have good hubs.

very interchangable
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Old Nov 30, 2017, 7:17 am
  #927  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by NickB

2) Second, I would also question the idea that schemes like FB Ulti or LH Hon or BA GGL are designed to be statuses to which one strives for (i.e. aspirational statuses). It seems to me that it is rather the opposite: they are primarily there as recognition for people who naturally tend to fly an awful lot with the airline rather than encourage incremental flying to reach the level. It seems to me that they are more about not losing a customer rather than as a driver of additional revenue. That said, it is true that there will be a number of individuals who are not the natural targeted constituency for the status and who will take steps to reach it. These are the BA GGLs that acquire their status through MRs from Europe to Hawaii, for instance. A similar phenomenon exists with LH Hons. I would have thought that this is a small constituency which is vastly over-represented on FT and reading the BA Board or the LH Board may give an over-inflated view of the significance of this, I would have thought.
I happen to know many people who "aspire" to HON. They are not on FT, they do not check their mileage balance every day, they do not go on mileage runs. But they "keep an eye on it". These people fly an awful lot, and a little redirecting of travel to LH/LX/OS will make the difference between 550k and 650k HON miles. Getting over the hump means that travel will become somewhat (for some situations signficantly) stress-free and potentially even pleasant. So it's worth re-directing a little travel there. I admit being one of those, but despite being on FT I do not check my mileage balance but certainly if there is one status that I want to make sure I keep it is this one, as it really makes a difference. So I aspire to it (gaining or maintaining), and the features offered loyalise me. Which is what the airline wants. The features and execution shortfalls of ULTI do not make it an aspiration for anyone (or at least not for most). Some ULTI posters here have said that they are disappointed and therefore indifferent whether or not they'll re-qualify. And I have yet to read about anyone who has decided to privilege AFKL now that ULTI exists. Hence, no additional revenue for AFKL. I therefore tend to agree that AFKL misses an opportunity, and that not hearing other than anecdotal enthusiasm is something revealing.

I agree with all your other points.
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San Gottardo is offline  
Old Nov 30, 2017, 7:24 am
  #928  
 
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Originally Posted by NickB
But would they? What proportions of LH Hons are not based in EMEA? Ditto for BA GGLs? And vice-versa for US airlines outside the Americas? If you are based in Paris and your travel radiates throughout the whole world, AA CK is going to be of relatively limited use to you even if you could theoretically attain it as only a fraction of your travels are going to be on AA anyway.On balance, I suspect that you would prefer something that makes your flying with AF more pleasant/bearable even if it has fewer bells and whistles than a super-duper programme on a US airline. If your traffic is mostly tatl, then clearly that is a different story, of course. Ditto with Gulf airlines, mutatis mutandis.
Agreed. But even attracting customers from within EMEA should be relevant and interesting for airlines. If AFKL managed to take away customers from IAG and LH Group in markets that would be a good thing for them. There are large markets that do have more limited connections from a home carrier than the large hubs : Italy, Belgium, Nordics, Portugal for instance are markets where people will have to change through one of the hubs for many of their longhaul trips, as opposed to people in London, Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt who are captive whenever convenience of global connections on one airline are concerned. Someone in Amsterdam has is extremely likely to have all his/her needs covered by KL, same someone in Frankfurt having covered everything through LH. Someone in Milan does not have that with AZ, nor someone in Stockholm with SK, let alone someone in Athens or Cairo.
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Old Dec 11, 2017, 11:19 am
  #929  
 
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New criteria

Will there be new criteria for becoming ULTI after April 1st, or just ( ) 45000€ in 2 years ?
delanotre is offline  
Old Dec 11, 2017, 1:14 pm
  #930  
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Originally Posted by delanotre
Will there be new criteria for becoming ULTI after April 1st, or just ( ) 45000€ in 2 years ?
1800 XPs in 2 years
Status miles earned in 2017 and during Q1-2018 will be converted into XPs using the "regular" conversion factor.
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