May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: Goldorak
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE
Main facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
Paris ORY
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to reportMain facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
- Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding
- Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign.
- Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone (on the left of terminal). Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line).
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
- Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
Paris ORY
- Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding
Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report
Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed
Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report
Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report
Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report
Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report
Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request
Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report
Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report
Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report
Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment
United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report
NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report
USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge.
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only / terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs),
- JFK (KL only / terminal 4) : no special treatments to report.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porsche transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge
Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival
CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff (inconsistently provided).
- SCL: as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in, pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously
ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report.
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to private (crew) security, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report
CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure
MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report
AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: escort on arrival through immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status
Nov 14, 2018, 12:10 pm
#1743
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,909
I then called the Ulti TA thinking that, even if she’s not Ulti, she’s travelling with me so they can make a gesture and help to re-accomodate her on her original-booked flight (note : I don’t like to use the term gesture in that context because it’s AF who created the problem so they can do something). I waited quite a long time before the call was taken (7-8 min). The agent was not helpful at all, saying basically there is nothing he can do. He was totally helpless and careless, not even proposing to put her on the wating list or on the previous flight. I was continuing to insist and then he said he would refer to the Ultimate team as they may have other guidelines
. I was of course very surprised of this statement and said « but you are not part of the Ulti team ?? ». He said that he was part of the platinum line team that takes the call when there are too many calls. So he said that the Ulti team will call me back. 2h45 later and still no call back 
, I called again and, again, the Plat line took the call. I said that I was still waiting for a call from the Ultimate team. 30 min later they finally called me back but, at the beginning, were also absolutely helpless and careless, in the mode « Mrs XXX is not Ultimate, there’s nothing I can do and she has a very cheap ticket, so those tickets holders are the 1st ones that are bumped out of the flight in that kind of situations ». I was literally starting to boil inside and explained to the agent that she’s not Ultimate but she’s travelling with an Ultimate and she took this AF flight because I was taking it and so we may take Eurostar next time as they don’t value our business at all. 
I even proposed to give her my « seat », re-explaining she was a mother of several young children and needed to go back home. She then put me on hold for 10 min to discuss with her supervisor and she finally proposed to rebook her on the previous flight today. It was not ideal, but certainly better than the tomorrow’s option.
So, disappointing handling, several calls needed, lots of arguments needed for a situation created by AF. I spent overall 1hr handling this during a very busy working day.
You may think that I was asking for too much for someone that is not Ulti, but what’s the point of that kind of status and TA service if it’s not to handle such situations ?
Last edited by Goldorak; Nov 14, 2018 at 4:15 pm
Nov 14, 2018, 12:30 pm
#1744
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Paris and around the WW
Programs: AF/KLM Club2000 Ultimate / M&M HON Circle / ALL Diamond / Hertz President Circle
Posts: 1,039
I am not even surprised... I had quite a similar issue with my girlfriend last year while I was travelling with her. (I was platinum, not Ulti)
We had 2 different booking ref as my tickets were paid by my company.
I first asked to the service desk to mix our booking ref so we could do the OLCI together --> They answered me it was not tecnically possible ???
Anyway, we were both travelling in J from Panama to CDG and they deliberately changed her seat without informing us. When I noticed it, I called them back to change it and they told me they were not able to do anything and that I needed to check at the counter at the airport... helpless assistance...
We had 2 different booking ref as my tickets were paid by my company.
I first asked to the service desk to mix our booking ref so we could do the OLCI together --> They answered me it was not tecnically possible ???
Anyway, we were both travelling in J from Panama to CDG and they deliberately changed her seat without informing us. When I noticed it, I called them back to change it and they told me they were not able to do anything and that I needed to check at the counter at the airport... helpless assistance...
Nov 14, 2018, 12:52 pm
#1745
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 191
so here is the last problems faced. They did not affect myself, but a colleague and I tried to arrange things. A colleague and I were traveling to LHR this week, return tonight by the last flight. She was not on the same PNR as me and she has no status in FB. Yesterday at H-30 when OLCI, I checked-in and right at the same time she received a sms and an e-mail from the ROC telling her that it was not possible to accommodate her on the booked flight and she was rebooked tomorrow morning at 6:30 am. Expertflyer was showing the flight zeroed out all fare buckets, so obviously the flight was heavily overbooked and she was bumped in advance. She was concerned because, apart the annoying situation, she’s a mother of young kids and so she needed to be back home. The e-mail she received was not mentioning anything about lodging.
I then called the Ulti TA thinking that, even if she’s not Ulti, she’s travelling with me so they can make a gesture and help to readcomodate her on her original-booked flight (note : I don’t like to use the term gesture in that context because it’s AF who created the problem so they can do something). I waited quite a long time before the call was taken (7-8 min). The agent was not helpful at all, saying basically there is nothing he can do. He was totally helpless and careless, not even proposing to put her on the wating list or on the previous flight. I was continuing to insist and then he said he would refer to the Ultimate team as they may have other guidelines
. I was of course very surprised of this statement and said « but you are not part of the Ulti team ?? ». He said that he was part of the platinum line team that takes the call when there are too many calls. So he said that the Ulti team will call me back. 2h45 later and still no call back , I called again and, again, the Plat line took the call. I said that I was still waiting for a call from te Ultimate team. 30 min later they finally called me back but, at the beginning, were also absolutely helpless and careless, in the mode « Mrs XXX is not Ultimate, there’s nothing I can do and she has a very cheap ticket, so those tickets holders are the 1st ones that are bumped out of the flight in that kind of situations ». I was literally starting to boil inside and explained to the agent that she’s not Ultimate but she’s travelling with an Ultimate and she took this AF flight because I was taking it and so we may take Eurostar next time as they don’t value our business at all. I even proposed to give her my « seat », reexplain8ng she was a mother of several young children and neede to go back home. She then put me on hold for 10 min to discuss with her supervisor and she proposed to rebook her on the previous flight today. It was not ideal, but certainly better than the tomorrow’s option.
So, disappointing handling, several calls needed, lots of arguments needed for a situation created by AF. I spent overall 1hr handling this during a very busy working day.
You may think that I was asking for too much for someone that is not Ulti, but what’s the point of that kind of status and TA service if it’s not to handle such situations ?
Nov 14, 2018, 7:26 pm
#1746
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
I am not even surprised... I had quite a similar issue with my girlfriend last year while I was travelling with her. (I was platinum, not Ulti)
We had 2 different booking ref as my tickets were paid by my company.
I first asked to the service desk to mix our booking ref so we could do the OLCI together --> They answered me it was not tecnically possible ???
Anyway, we were both travelling in J from Panama to CDG and they deliberately changed her seat without informing us. When I noticed it, I called them back to change it and they told me they were not able to do anything and that I needed to check at the counter at the airport... helpless assistance...
We had 2 different booking ref as my tickets were paid by my company.
I first asked to the service desk to mix our booking ref so we could do the OLCI together --> They answered me it was not tecnically possible ???
Anyway, we were both travelling in J from Panama to CDG and they deliberately changed her seat without informing us. When I noticed it, I called them back to change it and they told me they were not able to do anything and that I needed to check at the counter at the airport... helpless assistance...
Now about the technical feasibility of merging PNR, they are actually right in what they said to you. And that is the case for most legacy airlines. Don't blame AF here but the core IT of airlines which is inherited from the past century. Same as in banks etc.
The best they can do for common people, without having to cancel and re-issue all the tickets, is to put a manual note (text) in each of the PNR referring to the other PNR. Some if not most agents will then tell you that the PNR are linked. It is a total nonsense as if the next agent (ground or phone) to retrieve the PNR is not proactively reading the note, (s)he will have no clue of the possible instructions written in the note. Also these instructions are not binding at all and they could possibly ignore them.
For Ulti they are certainly able to monitor closely your PNR because that is part of the benefits they advertise. Providing a note was in your PNR they obviously did not.
Nov 14, 2018, 11:04 pm
#1747
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Hard to tell, but while discussing with one of the team members last week, I learned that a number of the people I regularly interacted with, notably last year, are either no longer part of the TA team, or only working part-time.
Nov 15, 2018, 1:47 am
#1748
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
I sympathize with you on that one as I cannot count the number of times that situation happened to me, my wife and kids when having separate AF bookings. Incidentally, they once upgraded the kids and not us but that is another story
Now about the technical feasibility of merging PNR, they are actually right in what they said to you. And that is the case for most legacy airlines. Don't blame AF here but the core IT of airlines which is inherited from the past century. Same as in banks etc.
The best they can do for common people, without having to cancel and re-issue all the tickets, is to put a manual note (text) in each of the PNR referring to the other PNR. Some if not most agents will then tell you that the PNR are linked. It is a total nonsense as if the next agent (ground or phone) to retrieve the PNR is not proactively reading the note, (s)he will have no clue of the possible instructions written in the note. Also these instructions are not binding at all and they could possibly ignore them.
For Ulti they are certainly able to monitor closely your PNR because that is part of the benefits they advertise. Providing a note was in your PNR they obviously did not.
Now about the technical feasibility of merging PNR, they are actually right in what they said to you. And that is the case for most legacy airlines. Don't blame AF here but the core IT of airlines which is inherited from the past century. Same as in banks etc.
The best they can do for common people, without having to cancel and re-issue all the tickets, is to put a manual note (text) in each of the PNR referring to the other PNR. Some if not most agents will then tell you that the PNR are linked. It is a total nonsense as if the next agent (ground or phone) to retrieve the PNR is not proactively reading the note, (s)he will have no clue of the possible instructions written in the note. Also these instructions are not binding at all and they could possibly ignore them.
For Ulti they are certainly able to monitor closely your PNR because that is part of the benefits they advertise. Providing a note was in your PNR they obviously did not.
Nov 15, 2018, 1:54 am
#1749
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,545
Goldorak, I understand your "boiling" and I am not going to continue on the "freezing" Irkutsk story.
I cannot comment on the insufficient number of Ulti PA and that they did not call you back.
On the other hand, I can understand that they be reluctant to change your colleague's flight (cheapo, no status). All flights are full and someone has to be moved to tmr morning. The fact that your colleague was accommodated on the earlier flight means someone will have to take her seat tmr morning.and spend the night in London. And that person might also have good reasons to be back to Paris. That is a big favor to you and seems to far exceed the kind of actions usually extended to Ulti. It also required a lot of manual intervention.
Despite your "boiling", one way to read your story is that, in the end, AF went a long way to satisfy an Ulti.
I cannot comment on the insufficient number of Ulti PA and that they did not call you back.
On the other hand, I can understand that they be reluctant to change your colleague's flight (cheapo, no status). All flights are full and someone has to be moved to tmr morning. The fact that your colleague was accommodated on the earlier flight means someone will have to take her seat tmr morning.and spend the night in London. And that person might also have good reasons to be back to Paris. That is a big favor to you and seems to far exceed the kind of actions usually extended to Ulti. It also required a lot of manual intervention.
Despite your "boiling", one way to read your story is that, in the end, AF went a long way to satisfy an Ulti.
Nov 15, 2018, 2:14 am
#1750
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: AF/KL FB Plat ; A3 Gold ; HH Gold ; IHG Plat Amb
Posts: 2,375
I would not call that a favor, the flight was overbooked, AF is fully responsible for the situation, it could cost them quite a lot to make someone arrive the following day since they can be sued for that on top of the legal compensation. It would be different if she had a ticket for the next morning flight and asked to fly earlier same day as an Ulti, this would be a real big favor if accepted. However, here, in case of overbooking, they must first ask for volunteers and it seems they did not. Goldorak even volunteered to give up his seat to make sure she gets her original flight, AF must have accepted but instead of VDB an ultimate, they found a ok solution, so why not. But here again, it is just the law, no favor for an Ulti: you cannot IDB before you VDB.
Nov 15, 2018, 2:30 am
#1751
Join Date: May 2017
Location: LYS
Programs: FB Plat
Posts: 438
Goldorak, that is a situation I really fear when traveling in groups, as being separated from "your experienced traveler who recommended the airline" adds a huge amount of stress.
I got a few tricky situations solved for my companions and myself, thanks to them being linked to my reservation, either before an issue arises or during the process of solving an issue. Now I always ask the Platinum Line to link PNRs. I don't want to risk letting companions with a downgraded AND stressful experience.
I got a few tricky situations solved for my companions and myself, thanks to them being linked to my reservation, either before an issue arises or during the process of solving an issue. Now I always ask the Platinum Line to link PNRs. I don't want to risk letting companions with a downgraded AND stressful experience.
Nov 15, 2018, 3:21 am
#1752
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,545
I would not call that a favor, the flight was overbooked, AF is fully responsible for the situation, it could cost them quite a lot to make someone arrive the following day since they can be sued for that on top of the legal compensation. It would be different if she had a ticket for the next morning flight and asked to fly earlier same day as an Ulti, this would be a real big favor if accepted. However, here, in case of overbooking, they must first ask for volunteers and it seems they did not. Goldorak even volunteered to give up his seat to make sure she gets her original flight, AF must have accepted but instead of VDB an ultimate, they found a ok solution, so why not. But here again, it is just the law, no favor for an Ulti: you cannot IDB before you VDB.
Overbooking does happen. EC261 (denied boarding) is exactly for that kind of situation. AF is offering the next available flight.
I do not think that you can sue in addition to the legal compensation provided by EC261. My thinking is that any court would refer to EC261.
And IMO is is a favor. Someone else will have to suffer instead of Goldorak's colleague selected on the basis of cheap fare and lack of status.
Last edited by brunos; Nov 15, 2018 at 3:30 am
Nov 15, 2018, 3:29 am
#1753
Join Date: May 2010
Programs: Delta Silver, HH Gold, Accor Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 5,340
Just for the sake of arguing: I don't get your point.
Overbooking does happen. EC261 (denied boarding) is exactly for that kind of situation. AF is offering the next available flight.
I do not think that you can sue in addition to the legal compensation provided by EC261. My thinking is that any court would refer to EC261.
Overbooking does happen. EC261 (denied boarding) is exactly for that kind of situation. AF is offering the next available flight.
I do not think that you can sue in addition to the legal compensation provided by EC261. My thinking is that any court would refer to EC261.
Originally Posted by EC261/2004
Article 12
Further compensation
1. This Regulation shall apply without prejudice to a passenger's rights to further compensation. The compensation granted under this Regulation may be deducted from such compensation.
2. Without prejudice to relevant principles and rules of national law, including case-law, paragraph 1 shall not apply to passengers who have voluntarily surrendered a reservation under Article 4(1).
Further compensation
1. This Regulation shall apply without prejudice to a passenger's rights to further compensation. The compensation granted under this Regulation may be deducted from such compensation.
2. Without prejudice to relevant principles and rules of national law, including case-law, paragraph 1 shall not apply to passengers who have voluntarily surrendered a reservation under Article 4(1).
Nov 15, 2018, 4:30 am
#1754
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: AF/KL FB Plat ; A3 Gold ; HH Gold ; IHG Plat Amb
Posts: 2,375
Exactly: if you need to hire a baby sitter for 15 hours at 20 EUR an hour + 50 EUR additional parking fee, that is 350 EUR. If you got 250 EUR compensation you can claim the additional 100 EUR since your delay is due to the carrier that overbooked the flight, not to weather or a strike.
Nov 15, 2018, 5:03 am
#1755
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,362
Just for the sake of arguing: I don't get your point.
Overbooking does happen. EC261 (denied boarding) is exactly for that kind of situation. AF is offering the next available flight.
I do not think that you can sue in addition to the legal compensation provided by EC261. My thinking is that any court would refer to EC261.
Overbooking does happen. EC261 (denied boarding) is exactly for that kind of situation. AF is offering the next available flight.
I do not think that you can sue in addition to the legal compensation provided by EC261. My thinking is that any court would refer to EC261.