SheBangsTheDrums

Afternoon, i flew MAN-ATL-HOU-ATL-MAN earlier this month.

The MAN-ATL-MAN legs were on VS but my booking shows the DL flight numbers (booked as a DL ticket through Expedia).

I have'nt been credited for these flights and when i enquired i was told they didnt qualify as they were flown on VS.

Is this correct, I'm confused (easily done ) as to why this is different from flying to CDG from MAN on BE, still get the flights\miles in that scenario.

Thanks in advance ^

irishguy28

Flying Blue is the frequent flyer programme of Air France - meaning that all flights coded as AF are treated exceptionally in Flying Blue.

Therefore, AF-coded flights always earn in Flying Blue*, regardless of who operates the flight (even non-Skyteam or non-FB partner airlines, such as FlyBE as you mentioned above).

In other Skyteam programmes, such non-Skyteam operated AF-coded flights WOULD NOT EARN.

The same applies for all KL-coded flights (and presumably also for all other flights bearing the code of an airline that has FB as their native programme - namely UX/Air Europa, SB/Aircalin, RO/Tarom, KQ/Kenya Airways).

When you buy a DL-coded flight, however, you are no longer dealing with a flight coded AF- or KL- (or another native FB airline). Therefore, the usual Skyteam requirement that the flight be both coded by, and operated by, a Skyteam or Flying Blue partner kicks in.

VS is NOT a Skyteam airline and neither is it a Flying Blue partner.

Therefore, DL???? operated by VS won't earn in Flying Blue.
Neither would VS???? operated by DL earn in Flying Blue.

You can claim mileage for these flights in either Delta or Virgin Atlantic's programmes if you wish.

*subject to normal AF earning rules. Though I am pretty sure that non-earning MiNi fares are not offered on such "partner operated" flights.

akr1970akr

Wow. That's a complex earning set of rules. Thanks for sharing. Never knew that.

vexorg

They can also code share, have a KL number on the boarding pass, and still not qualify. Got that years ago before Malaysian Airlines were a full sky team partner. When you book, you are supposed to check the operator and not assume the KL / DL / AF /whatever number means you're in the program.

irishguy28

Malaysia Airlines is not, and never has been, a Skyteam partner.

All KL coded flights earn miles - regardless of the operator.

The scenario of a KL flight operated by MH not earning could never have arisen to the best of my knowledge, unless it somehow fell foul of some of the "exceptions" listed above; I don't recall there ever being an exception on earning on flights between AMS and KUL, though, and I am not aware of KL codesharing on flights from France/Italy to Malaysia (not that MH flies to Italy any more; they stopped a few years ago).

Either the flight that didn't earn for you was actually an MH flight, subject to the exclusions on earning in force at the time (not all MH flights earn, although Malaysia Airlines is a Flying Blue partner); or else it was pre-2005, in the KLM Flying Dutchman days (prior to Flying Blue) - I have no idea what the earning rules in that programme were.

Unless you can provide more specific details, I'm going to guess that you remembered the scenario incorrectly.

This is wrong...

Aer Lingus, for instance, is not a Skyteam member, nor is it a Flying Blue partner.

And yet, every KL flight I've ever taken on Aer Lingus metal has earned FB miles. And there is no "Aer Lingus" page amongst the partners listed on the Flying Blue website to consult.

That's because it's unnecessary. All KL flights earn.

irishguy28

It's actually not that complex. It can be simplified as:

If the flight is AF or KL coded - it doesn't matter who operates the flight. All flights earn*.
If the flight is not AF or KL coded - it must be both coded ["marketed by"] and operated by a Skyteam airline (not necessarily the same airline).

*subject to the normal exclusions that apply to ALL AF and KL flights.

Goldorak

Indeed. And similar rules exist in other alliances.

vexorg

Well, they are some kind of partner: https://www.flyingblue.com/earn-and-...-airlines.html

And another complaining about MH not giving miles: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...vel-miles.html

KL4102 / KL4103 are the numbers that caught me out, or MH16 and MH17 (still makes me shiver thinking I've been on that route). KLM desk said it was simple: "no blue tail, no miles", code sharing goes for nothing with flying blue.

orbitmic

It's actually more radical than that: it has to be coded by and operated by a Skyteam partner (not a FB partner). For instance, GOL is a FB partner, but while AF number operated by Gol is fine, and even Gol ticketed and operated will earn you award miles, AZ or DL number operated by Gol will not earn you anything. Same goes for Comair or JL etc.

So the basic rule is:

- Any AF or KL ticketed flight is treated the same regardless of operating carrier;

- Any Skyteam coded flight is only eligible for accrual if it is also operated by a Skyteam airline.

SheBangsTheDrums

Thanks to irishguy28 and all who replied. I understand the situation now, thank you.

irishguy28

They are; they are a Flying Blue partner airline, which means that you can earn (Award, not Level) miles on MH-coded flights, subject to the exceptions on that page.

That page is irrelevant for KL-coded MH-operated flights - you should instead consult the KLM page.

Therefore, when you fly on MH under a KL code, you earn level AND award miles on the basis of the KL tables. Just as if it was KL-coded and KL-operated. All that matters is that it is KL-coded.



If you read the very last post in that thread, a poster came back to announce the correct resolution of the issue:

As you can see, that report was an anomaly. This poster chased it up, and got the level miles.

None of us here can do anything about ill-informed or mistaken agents or incorrect advice doled out by KLM/Flying Blue staff.

Flying Blue has never been particularly good at explaining the rules of the programme (just look back at that thread from the early days of Flying Blue you dug up; some of the text reproduced from the Flying Blue T&Cs/website back then was even more ambiguous than the current versions) and there may be very many staff members who may have misconceptions about certain aspects of the programme. I often wonder how many of the agents actually use the programme themselves, and if they are familiar with the workings of the programme from the user side, or rather, their only "image" of the programme is from their understanding of the (often ambiguous) written rules.

I often get the feeling that the agents often don't fully understand the rules in certain "unusual" cases (not that there should be anything unusual about earning on a KLM codeshare). What makes it worse is that the agents are often unshakeably certain that their interpretation is correct.

You should have got Level and Award miles for that KL-coded MH-operated flight, regardless of what any KLM or Flying Blue agent may have told you.

When you ask an FB agent, you will get the interpretation or understanding of that particular FB agent. They may be wrong - they are only human.
When you ask on FlyerTalk, you will get a range of replies from a range of people with several years' experience of how the programme actually operates. There may sometimes be differing opinions, but you will usually find a consensus.

vexorg

The agent in that case was equally baffled by KL numbers not qualifying. Boarding pass had MH on it not KL. It sticks in my mind as it was pre-rollover and my total for the year was 69k miles and one non-qualifying MH16 flight.

The rules seem so flippant at times I've given up arguing with them, they get one or two emails to ask if that's right then I give up.

olivedel

That rule has never changed. Again, if the flight is AF or KL coded, no matter what airline is operating the flight, you should earn miles based on the class you were booked on (if the class allows mileage accrual).
A simple retroclaim will allow you to get the miles, providing the boarding pass and e-ticket receipt.

When you say KLM desk, what type of desk are you actually referring to?

vexorg

Usually in the crown lounge, sometimes the online when not flying again soon.

I was meaning level miles, they don't apply to MH. The KLM site is a bit clearer now as they have an operator column, it's still listed as KL41xx flight, far too easy to assume it's a KLM flight from klm.com as it has a KL number.

It's all very subtle to the casual user. And one of those that is obvious if you know, and not at all obvious if you haven't read the FB fine print.

OP has his answer, no amount of regular flyers shouting that's the rules will stop it happening again.

olivedel

Again, the airline operating the flight does not matter in terms of earning miles: they are qualifying miles if the flight number starts with AF or KL.
Here is the paragraph of FB T&C :
There is no fine print whatsoever.
Here is an example of an AF-coded flight operated by Air Corsica, a non-SkyTeam airline :

It clearly shows that you earn level miles and qualifying flights.