No miles\flights for DL on VS metal?

Old Jul 28, 15, 8:46 am
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No miles\flights for DL on VS metal?

Afternoon, i flew MAN-ATL-HOU-ATL-MAN earlier this month.

The MAN-ATL-MAN legs were on VS but my booking shows the DL flight numbers (booked as a DL ticket through Expedia).

I have'nt been credited for these flights and when i enquired i was told they didnt qualify as they were flown on VS.

Is this correct, I'm confused (easily done ) as to why this is different from flying to CDG from MAN on BE, still get the flights\miles in that scenario.

Thanks in advance ^
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Old Jul 28, 15, 8:55 am
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Flying Blue is the frequent flyer programme of Air France - meaning that all flights coded as AF are treated exceptionally in Flying Blue.

Therefore, AF-coded flights always earn in Flying Blue*, regardless of who operates the flight (even non-Skyteam or non-FB partner airlines, such as FlyBE as you mentioned above).

In other Skyteam programmes, such non-Skyteam operated AF-coded flights WOULD NOT EARN.

The same applies for all KL-coded flights (and presumably also for all other flights bearing the code of an airline that has FB as their native programme - namely UX/Air Europa, SB/Aircalin, RO/Tarom, KQ/Kenya Airways).

When you buy a DL-coded flight, however, you are no longer dealing with a flight coded AF- or KL- (or another native FB airline). Therefore, the usual Skyteam requirement that the flight be both coded by, and operated by, a Skyteam or Flying Blue partner kicks in.

VS is NOT a Skyteam airline and neither is it a Flying Blue partner.

Therefore, DL???? operated by VS won't earn in Flying Blue.
Neither would VS???? operated by DL earn in Flying Blue.

You can claim mileage for these flights in either Delta or Virgin Atlantic's programmes if you wish.

*subject to normal AF earning rules. Though I am pretty sure that non-earning MiNi fares are not offered on such "partner operated" flights.

Last edited by irishguy28; Jul 28, 15 at 9:01 am
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Old Jul 28, 15, 10:39 am
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Wow. That's a complex earning set of rules. Thanks for sharing. Never knew that.
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Old Jul 28, 15, 11:19 am
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They can also code share, have a KL number on the boarding pass, and still not qualify. Got that years ago before Malaysian Airlines were a full sky team partner. When you book, you are supposed to check the operator and not assume the KL / DL / AF /whatever number means you're in the program.
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Old Jul 28, 15, 11:32 am
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Malaysia Airlines is not, and never has been, a Skyteam partner.

All KL coded flights earn miles - regardless of the operator.

Originally Posted by Flying Blue
Flying Blue members can earn Miles on:

Flights that are operated by Malaysia Airlines and marketed as MH, AF or KL


Please note that Flying Blue members cannot earn and spend Miles on:

Flights from Malaysia to France and vice versa
Flights from Malaysia to Italy and vice versa
The scenario of a KL flight operated by MH not earning could never have arisen to the best of my knowledge, unless it somehow fell foul of some of the "exceptions" listed above; I don't recall there ever being an exception on earning on flights between AMS and KUL, though, and I am not aware of KL codesharing on flights from France/Italy to Malaysia (not that MH flies to Italy any more; they stopped a few years ago).

Either the flight that didn't earn for you was actually an MH flight, subject to the exclusions on earning in force at the time (not all MH flights earn, although Malaysia Airlines is a Flying Blue partner); or else it was pre-2005, in the KLM Flying Dutchman days (prior to Flying Blue) - I have no idea what the earning rules in that programme were.

Unless you can provide more specific details, I'm going to guess that you remembered the scenario incorrectly.

Originally Posted by vexorg View Post
They can also code share, have a KL number on the boarding pass, and still not qualify. Got that years ago before Malaysian Airlines were a full sky team partner. When you book, you are supposed to check the operator and not assume the KL / DL / AF /whatever number means you're in the program.
This is wrong...

Aer Lingus, for instance, is not a Skyteam member, nor is it a Flying Blue partner.

And yet, every KL flight I've ever taken on Aer Lingus metal has earned FB miles. And there is no "Aer Lingus" page amongst the partners listed on the Flying Blue website to consult.

That's because it's unnecessary. All KL flights earn.

Last edited by irishguy28; Jul 28, 15 at 11:40 am
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Old Jul 28, 15, 11:44 am
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Originally Posted by akr1970akr View Post
Wow. That's a complex earning set of rules. Thanks for sharing. Never knew that.
It's actually not that complex. It can be simplified as:

If the flight is AF or KL coded - it doesn't matter who operates the flight. All flights earn*.
If the flight is not AF or KL coded - it must be both coded ["marketed by"] and operated by a Skyteam airline (not necessarily the same airline).

*subject to the normal exclusions that apply to ALL AF and KL flights.
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Old Jul 28, 15, 12:54 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
It's actually not that complex.
Indeed. And similar rules exist in other alliances.
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Old Jul 28, 15, 1:57 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Malaysia Airlines is not, and never has been, a Skyteam partner.

All KL coded flights earn miles - regardless of the operator.
Well, they are some kind of partner: https://www.flyingblue.com/earn-and-...-airlines.html

And another complaining about MH not giving miles: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...vel-miles.html

KL4102 / KL4103 are the numbers that caught me out, or MH16 and MH17 (still makes me shiver thinking I've been on that route). KLM desk said it was simple: "no blue tail, no miles", code sharing goes for nothing with flying blue.
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Old Jul 28, 15, 4:46 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Therefore, the usual Skyteam requirement that the flight be both coded by, and operated by, a Skyteam or Flying Blue partner kicks in.
It's actually more radical than that: it has to be coded by and operated by a Skyteam partner (not a FB partner). For instance, GOL is a FB partner, but while AF number operated by Gol is fine, and even Gol ticketed and operated will earn you award miles, AZ or DL number operated by Gol will not earn you anything. Same goes for Comair or JL etc.

So the basic rule is:

- Any AF or KL ticketed flight is treated the same regardless of operating carrier;

- Any Skyteam coded flight is only eligible for accrual if it is also operated by a Skyteam airline.
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Old Jul 29, 15, 4:27 am
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Thanks to irishguy28 and all who replied. I understand the situation now, thank you.
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Old Jul 29, 15, 4:28 am
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Originally Posted by vexorg View Post
Well, they are some kind of partner: https://www.flyingblue.com/earn-and-...-airlines.html
They are; they are a Flying Blue partner airline, which means that you can earn (Award, not Level) miles on MH-coded flights, subject to the exceptions on that page.

That page is irrelevant for KL-coded MH-operated flights - you should instead consult the KLM page.

Originally Posted by Flying Blue
How many Miles will I earn?
The number of Award Miles and Level Miles you will earn depends on three important factors:

1) The marketing carrier and the operating airline
The accrual scheme of the marketing carrier determines how many Miles you can earn on your flight. It is easy to find out which airline is the marketing carrier for your flight. The two-digit airline code that comes before the flight number (e.g. KL 0123) shows which airline is the marketing carrier.

If your flight number starts with an airline code from one of the Flying Blue partner airlines (e.g. AZ 0123) the accrual scheme of that specific partner (in this case Alitalia) will apply, even if the flight is operated by another airline. Please check the relevant airline partner page for more information about the number of Miles you can earn.
Therefore, when you fly on MH under a KL code, you earn level AND award miles on the basis of the KL tables. Just as if it was KL-coded and KL-operated. All that matters is that it is KL-coded.


Originally Posted by vexorg View Post
And another complaining about MH not giving miles: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...vel-miles.html

If you read the very last post in that thread, a poster came back to announce the correct resolution of the issue:

Originally Posted by tlr
Originally Posted by tlr
The bad thing here is that, in the first place, one needs luck to actually get staff on the phone who know their job. I've been told obvious bull.... by call center agents more often than I care to remember... Currently going through the "fix mileage for an MH flight booked under KL number" exercise; same effect.
One week after I got to an agent who seemed to know their job, I got a letter requesting original boarding passes. Sent these two weeks ago; level miles for MAS-operated KL-coded segments were credited today.
As you can see, that report was an anomaly. This poster chased it up, and got the level miles.

Originally Posted by vexorg View Post
KL4102 / KL4103 are the numbers that caught me out, or MH16 and MH17 (still makes me shiver thinking I've been on that route). KLM desk said it was simple: "no blue tail, no miles", code sharing goes for nothing with flying blue.
None of us here can do anything about ill-informed or mistaken agents or incorrect advice doled out by KLM/Flying Blue staff.

Flying Blue has never been particularly good at explaining the rules of the programme (just look back at that thread from the early days of Flying Blue you dug up; some of the text reproduced from the Flying Blue T&Cs/website back then was even more ambiguous than the current versions) and there may be very many staff members who may have misconceptions about certain aspects of the programme. I often wonder how many of the agents actually use the programme themselves, and if they are familiar with the workings of the programme from the user side, or rather, their only "image" of the programme is from their understanding of the (often ambiguous) written rules.

I often get the feeling that the agents often don't fully understand the rules in certain "unusual" cases (not that there should be anything unusual about earning on a KLM codeshare). What makes it worse is that the agents are often unshakeably certain that their interpretation is correct.

You should have got Level and Award miles for that KL-coded MH-operated flight, regardless of what any KLM or Flying Blue agent may have told you.

When you ask an FB agent, you will get the interpretation or understanding of that particular FB agent. They may be wrong - they are only human.
When you ask on FlyerTalk, you will get a range of replies from a range of people with several years' experience of how the programme actually operates. There may sometimes be differing opinions, but you will usually find a consensus.

Last edited by irishguy28; Jul 29, 15 at 4:51 am
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Old Jul 29, 15, 5:07 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
What makes it worse is that the agents are often unshakeably certain that their interpretation is correct.
The agent in that case was equally baffled by KL numbers not qualifying. Boarding pass had MH on it not KL. It sticks in my mind as it was pre-rollover and my total for the year was 69k miles and one non-qualifying MH16 flight.

The rules seem so flippant at times I've given up arguing with them, they get one or two emails to ask if that's right then I give up.

Last edited by vexorg; Jul 29, 15 at 11:52 am
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Old Jul 29, 15, 10:42 am
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Originally Posted by vexorg View Post
The rules seem so flippant at times I've given up arguing with them, they get one or two emails to ask if that's right then I give up.
That rule has never changed. Again, if the flight is AF or KL coded, no matter what airline is operating the flight, you should earn miles based on the class you were booked on (if the class allows mileage accrual).
A simple retroclaim will allow you to get the miles, providing the boarding pass and e-ticket receipt.

When you say KLM desk, what type of desk are you actually referring to?
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Old Jul 29, 15, 12:04 pm
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Originally Posted by olivedel View Post
When you say KLM desk, what type of desk are you actually referring to?
Usually in the crown lounge, sometimes the online when not flying again soon.

I was meaning level miles, they don't apply to MH. The KLM site is a bit clearer now as they have an operator column, it's still listed as KL41xx flight, far too easy to assume it's a KLM flight from klm.com as it has a KL number.

It's all very subtle to the casual user. And one of those that is obvious if you know, and not at all obvious if you haven't read the FB fine print.

OP has his answer, no amount of regular flyers shouting that's the rules will stop it happening again.
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Old Jul 30, 15, 2:51 am
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Originally Posted by vexorg View Post
I was meaning level miles, they don't apply to MH. The KLM site is a bit clearer now as they have an operator column, it's still listed as KL41xx flight, far too easy to assume it's a KLM flight from klm.com as it has a KL number.
Again, the airline operating the flight does not matter in terms of earning miles: they are qualifying miles if the flight number starts with AF or KL.
Here is the paragraph of FB T&C :
Originally Posted by FB T&C
2.4 Except as specified in FB Communication, flights which qualify for Miles accumulation are (i) scheduled flights with an Air France or KLM flight number showing the AF or KL designated code (ii) scheduled flights with a Skyteam Partner flight number operated by Air France, KLM or a SkyTeam Partner (iii) scheduled flights with a Flying Blue Partner flight number operated by this Flying Blue Partner or by AF or KLM. Level and Award Miles accumulation may be reduced or excluded on certain booking classes or fare types on Air France, KLM, or Airline Partner operated flights as specified in FB Communication. Non-public fares are not eligible for mileage accumulation. In particular, Award tickets, travel industry reduced rates, free or non-revenue tickets, military or government or parliament tickets are excluded from Miles accumulation. All services provided by Non-Airline Partners qualify for Award Miles accumulation under the conditions indicated in FB Communication. Any services proposed by Non-Airline Partners at employee-reduced rates do not qualify for Award Miles accrual.
There is no fine print whatsoever.
Here is an example of an AF-coded flight operated by Air Corsica, a non-SkyTeam airline :

It clearly shows that you earn level miles and qualifying flights.
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