AZ to end AF/KL partnership from january 2017

Old Jun 28, 2017, 5:43 am
  #226  
 
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
Took ORY-LIN this morning for the first time since December. Not a nice experience anymore, despite the proximity of both ORY and LIN to the respective city centres.
  • No OLCI possible, despite ticket being booked directly with Alitalia
  • Flight now leaves from ORY South with its distinct beach and VFR feeling about it. Everything just takes much longer as people aren't in the same mindset as when whizzing through SkyPriority at CDG
  • SkyPriority line at CKI is sign-posted, but noone respects it (neither passengers nor staff)
  • Check-in done by a clueless subcontractor firm ("Please go immediately to the gate, there are many people at passport control." - "This flight does not leave from the Schengen gates" - in a lecturing tone: "No Sir, this flight goes to Italy. You should know, you are traveling on it")
  • No possibility to obtain boarding pass for return flight on the same day
  • No more Access No. 1, despite flying in J and Skypriority
  • No lounge
  • Plane now downgauged to an ERJ-170, which means no more free neighbouring seat in J, unlike on the A319 which used to operate on the route
  • Plane parked on tarmac, accessible through a long outside corridor. The gate staff hoarded all the people in that outside corridor for more than 20 minutes - great fun with temperatures above 30 degrees and the noisy and dusty construction site of the ORY connector just a few centimeters behind the parting

Clearly the service and comfort level was better during the days of the partnership and ops from Orly West (lounge, fast track at security) with a larger plane aceessible by jetway. Return should be better as it is leaving from one of AZ's hubs, but still
Oh dear... Already Orly South is a permanent mess, especially passport control and security... Even when i arrive 3 hours prior it always seems like i am last minute. I guess Alyzia has taken over ground handling at Orly for Alitalia, every flight i have taken handled by them at ORY they bark at everyone to get through passport control (even for schengen flights) or risk death .

As for the lounges i believe Orly South only has lounges at the A gates (non-schengen gates), the B gates have no lounge area at all.

It's quite sad to see what Alitalia is getting reduced to.
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Old Oct 20, 2017, 12:21 am
  #227  
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For information, AF is transferring for the winter season 2 weekend frequencies from MXP to LIN, with a change of flight number but same departure/arrival times :
AF1230 CDG-MXP -> AF1012 CDG-LIN Days 6 7
AF1231 MXP-CDG -> AF1013 LIN-CDG Days 6 7

AF1830 CDG-MXP -> AF1812 CDG-LIN Day 6
AF1831 CDG-MXP -> AF1813 LIN-CDG Day 6
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Old Oct 20, 2017, 3:56 am
  #228  
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This sounds so weird. Only weekends.

Last edited by brunos; Oct 20, 2017 at 5:21 am
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Old Oct 20, 2017, 12:11 pm
  #229  
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Originally Posted by brunos
This sounds so weird. Only weekends.
I have the impression that they are taking any slot they can find at LIN, in link with AZ debacle.
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Old Oct 25, 2017, 9:48 am
  #230  
 
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Slightly OT, but just to share that Lufthansa has made an offer to take over parts of Alitalia, basically carving outs the bits that they like without the financial obligations. The idea is to turn them around in the way that they have turned around Swiss (which today is the most profitable airline in the LH Group).

If you read German: http://www.aero.de/news-27782/Luftha...gestalten.html

Lufthansa had looked into taking a stake in AZ a couple of years ago, but decided not to do so because of too much influence from politics and unions. AirFranceKLM did take a stake (maybe thinking that they are used to deal with political and union influence - which they are in the case of AF, but have not proven yet how to run a very successful airline despite that influence)
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Old Oct 25, 2017, 10:08 am
  #231  
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This has been known for some time;

LH confirms AZ bid

Today, however, it was revealed that Cerberus have made a late bid for the entire company; and are willing to work with the administrators (who are in charge of the airline until April, the Italian Government having recently extended the bridging loan in light of the upheaval in the European aviation market this summer) to actually run/reposition the airline, for free, in advance of potentially later assuming control.

As such, this offer is the only one that meets the Italian government's preference that the entire business be sold as a single unit; however, even here, various challenges arise, one of them being the non-EU character of Cerberus. There may yet be scope for European partners - AFKL being a very likely candidate - to be drafted into this consortium.
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Old Oct 25, 2017, 10:39 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
AFKL being a very likely candidate - to be drafted into this consortium.
[Apparently] DL is also rumoured to be behind the consortium's draft. On a side note, DL has just added its codes on the newly launched FCO-DEL service.

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Old Oct 25, 2017, 1:48 pm
  #233  
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I'd definitely prefer it if AZ stayed in SkyTeam.
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Old Oct 25, 2017, 3:08 pm
  #234  
 
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Originally Posted by caliform
I'd definitely prefer it if AZ stayed in SkyTeam.
Out of curiosity: is that because you think SkyTeam is a "better" (=more attractive for passengers) alliance or because you have SkyTeam ElitePlus status (which is of course a very valid reason!)?

For day-to-day use the only substantial difference between the two for me is that with Star Alliance you have lounge access also on domestic-only flights of alliance partners, whereas with SkyTeam you don't. Network coverage is a very personal thing depending on where you fly to, and quality of airlines is also debatable depending on which matter to you (each alliance has some good ones and some not-so-great ones, with SkyTeam maybe a somewhat weaker showing).
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Old Oct 26, 2017, 2:25 am
  #235  
 
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Slightly OT but...

https://www.24heures.ch/economie/Luf...story/23761007

Spohr basically reiterating their plans for AZ (FCO 5th LHG's hub, MIL operations under EW).

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Old Oct 26, 2017, 2:44 am
  #236  
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
For day-to-day use the only substantial difference between the two for me is that with Star Alliance you have lounge access also on domestic-only flights of alliance partners, whereas with SkyTeam you don't.
On Star Alliance, that really depends. There is no blanket lounge access guarantee for Star Golds on all domestic flights....

And anyway, in general most people who have settled on AZ for status are aware that it is their "Skyteam" programme, and will be used to that. Most frequent travellers will already have a Star Alliance and/or oneworld account sorted out, too. It would cause disruption to those plans (for me, too!) if Millemiglia was suddenly to morph over into one of the other alliances where you already had an alternate in place. Perhaps in the end it won't matter so much to many people - the majority of AZ fliers probably don't and won't fly much with other Skyteam airlines after any such change - but for me, it would be a biggie!
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Old Oct 26, 2017, 3:27 am
  #237  
 
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Not sure what those screen shots are saying.

The fact is that as a Star Alliance Gold member - the equivalent of SkyTeam Elite Plus - you can access a lounge for domestic-only flights (with the exception of UA card holders on UA domestic flights). So, if Alitalia moves to M&M, your SEN card will give you lounge access on any Star Alliance flight. You fly Denver-Idaho Falls on UA, or Chengdu-Lhasa on CA, or Auckland-Wellington on NZ, you have lounge access, with a guest, irrespective of the class you fly.

Oneworld is the same.

Comparison: for SkyTeam ElitePlus, lounge access is only on international flights or domestic-connecting-to-international flights. So as a FB Platinum flying Salt Lake City-Idaho Falls on DL, Shanghai-Wuhan on CZ or Jakarta-Denpasar on GA, you do *not* have lounge access.
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Old Oct 26, 2017, 3:40 am
  #238  
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Another difference is luggage allowance, as already briefly discussed at the AZ subforum. Most Skyteam airlines offer +1pc of luggage to Skyteam elites on light fares, where many (all?) *A airlines do not. Most extreme example is that a M&M HON will not even get a single free checked bag when flying a Lufthansa light fare.

Regarding lounges, my impression is that (at least in Europe) the *A lounges generally are a bit above Skyteam ones in terms of food quality and diversity. This may be due to the fact that the LH group runs most of the *A lounges in Europe, whereas KLM, AF and AZ are not exactly known for their awesome lounge food (Though AZ is getting better at their FCO hub the last few years).
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Last edited by Xandrios; Oct 26, 2017 at 3:48 am
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Old Oct 26, 2017, 3:52 am
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Originally Posted by Xandrios
Regarding lounges, my impression is that (at least in Europe) the *A lounges generally are a bit above Skyteam ones in terms of food quality and diversity
...and they have proper beers (especially Paulaner in FRA/MUC & Hoegaarden in BRU)

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Old Oct 26, 2017, 4:09 am
  #240  
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
On Star Alliance, that really depends. There is no blanket lounge access guarantee for Star Golds on all domestic flights....
This is misleading in its vagueness and I also do not quite undertand why you copy the bit of the *A website page dealing with access to lounges based on class of service when talking about access to lounge based on FFP membership.

There is lounge access for all *A Gold customers on all domestic flights except if your FFP is UA's MileagePlus, in which case you will not have access to lounges when flying within North America. This is standard for US airlines, which do not want to undermine their paid access lounge membership programmes through FFP lounge access rules. There is a similar carve out for AA frequent flyers flying domestically in the US with OW.

This is clear in the paragraph that you omitted to reproduce:
Originally Posted by *A website
Star Alliance Gold Customers travelling in any class
As a Star Alliance Gold customer, you have access to any member airline lounge that displays the Star Alliance Gold logo. You will need to present your boarding pass for a Star Alliance flight departing from the local airport. If your boarding pass does not carry the Star Alliance Gold indicator, you will need also to show your valid Star Alliance Gold card. You are entitled to a maximum of one guest. If you are a United MileagePlus Star Alliance Gold customer, you may only access the United Clubs within the U.S. when departing from that airport on an international Star Alliance flight.
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