AZ to end AF/KL partnership from january 2017
Mar 7, 2017, 12:29 am
#166
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,412
Just last weekend, had a very strange experience since I was on a code share AZ flight but operated by KLM. At the origin airport, they could not issue the KLM operated leg boarding pass - was told that the systems don't talk to each other and told to get the boarding pass @ FCO upon arrival.
Upon arrival @ FCO, at the AZ transit desk, when I tried to get this, I was sent to go to the KLM transit desk - but I went directly to the gate since the flight was already boarding.
For me - this already shows how bad it is already before all this started - as both ST and (post close working partners), they can't issue boarding passes. I am not sure if this is due to the recent changes in the reservation/booking system of AZ.
Furthermore, at the outstation, with my FB number, there was no recognition of the status (not sure if this is due as indicated in the AZ forum - the changes in the AZ booking/passenger control system).
Cheers!
Upon arrival @ FCO, at the AZ transit desk, when I tried to get this, I was sent to go to the KLM transit desk - but I went directly to the gate since the flight was already boarding.
For me - this already shows how bad it is already before all this started - as both ST and (post close working partners), they can't issue boarding passes. I am not sure if this is due to the recent changes in the reservation/booking system of AZ.
Furthermore, at the outstation, with my FB number, there was no recognition of the status (not sure if this is due as indicated in the AZ forum - the changes in the AZ booking/passenger control system).
Cheers!
KL always had their own check-in counters at FCO due to this...
It's one of the reasons why should carry your physical card with you when travelling on ST partners.
Mar 7, 2017, 2:25 am
#167
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I am not so sure that AF has more to lose than AZ, because JV flights are not affected (yet?), but also because AZ pax can still book under AF code if they wish and this remains in the Skyteam family. AZ long-haul is still limited and EY connections in AUH are useless if going to the Americas or Japan/Korea. I would tend to think that both AF/KL and AZ will lose something but that AZ has more to lose and it will accelerate the haemorrhage.
Mar 7, 2017, 2:36 am
#168
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,647
Edit: probably not the case as this particular issue normally arises with AZ operated flights and FB number on the reservation.
G
Mar 7, 2017, 2:50 am
#169
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G
Last edited by AlicorporateUK; Mar 7, 2017 at 2:55 am
Mar 7, 2017, 2:53 am
#170
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I am not so sure that AF has more to lose than AZ, because JV flights are not affected (yet?), but also because AZ pax can still book under AF code if they wish and this remains in the Skyteam family. AZ long-haul is still limited and EY connections in AUH are useless if going to the Americas or Japan/Korea. I would tend to think that both AF/KL and AZ will lose something but that AZ has more to lose and it will accelerate the haemorrhage.
But pricewise it should not be affected (probably).
When/if the TATL JV ends, the situation will be different.
My speculation is that there are many more Italians using the JV (through CDG/AMS) than French pax (through Italy). Unless AFKL offer good frequencies from Italian airports that might reduce the attraction for Italian pax. And then AFKL will simply be one of the airlines of choice competing with LH, BA and US airlines.
But we don't know what will happen if AZ leaves the JV. Maybe they will conclude a separate agreement with DL or another airline to increase its TATL coverage. Or maybe they will simply fold as seems likely.
Mar 7, 2017, 3:14 am
#171
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G
Mar 7, 2017, 3:23 am
#172
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AZ want to run more services, but are restricted from doing so by the others
I can't find a more up to date slide right now but here was the situation in summer 15
(They had fewer seats in 2015 than 10 years previously, prior to their JV entry - meaning AZ and BA were the only "big" airlines to actually decline in numbers on the TATL market. Back in 2005, AZ would have represented around 11% of Skyteam capacity (though perhaps NW's numbers for 2005 are completely missing rather than being added to Delta's figures for 2005); in 2015, AZ only represented 6.7% of Skyteam JV seats.)
Last edited by irishguy28; Mar 7, 2017 at 3:30 am
Mar 7, 2017, 7:06 am
#174
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Indeed so few AZ flight to America (even including Etihad)
Mar 7, 2017, 8:17 am
#175
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Mar 7, 2017, 5:37 pm
#176
Join Date: Oct 2014
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So it won't be possible to combine AF/KLM and Alitalia any more? Last week the AF App showed that my two upcoming flights with Alitalia AMS-LIN and LIN-AMS had been cancelled, and to my utter dismay I saw that I had been moved to something called KLM Cityhopper which I doubt i'd like given that I don't like small planes. Fortunately I was allowed to change the tickets to Air France, whose schedule also suits me better.
So I guess this is final, no more Alitalia?
So I guess this is final, no more Alitalia?
Mar 8, 2017, 3:34 am
#178
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Well, that will depend on the fare as not all fares allow interlining and/or combinability with another airline's fares. There will be no issue with US origins or destinations due to the JV but the same should not be assumed for other origins or destinations.
Mar 8, 2017, 4:53 am
#179
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That may be but you should keep in mind that AZ and AF/KL are still part of SkyTeam, so at least for awards, one can route on a combination of them if available. Thus, my sense is that there is still a fare published for other city pairs, so one shouldn't automatically assume that just because codesharing is being limited, those fares no longer exist or that routing rules are significantly modified.
Mar 8, 2017, 7:37 am
#180
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That may be but you should keep in mind that AZ and AF/KL are still part of SkyTeam, so at least for awards, one can route on a combination of them if available. Thus, my sense is that there is still a fare published for other city pairs, so one shouldn't automatically assume that just because codesharing is being limited, those fares no longer exist or that routing rules are significantly modified.
I have not checked for South America and Africa but, as far as Asia is concerned, I cannot seem to find an AF fare that will allow interlining with AZ or combination with AZ at anything cheaper than at full fare (Y class for economy and C class for business). Within purely intra-European itineraries, it is even worse: AFAIK, there is no combinability at all, period.
The story is more or less the same with KL, except that KL allows IATA fares, so you could in theory have a IATA full Y fare within Europe if you wanted.
So, for practical purposes, and except for the North American JV and for award redemptions, combining AFKL with AZ is pretty much dead.