Old Jul 28, 2021, 7:32 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
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Wiki for Mileage/XP Runs
Indicate below your itinerary, availability dates, price and XP. Please only log runs with confirmed fares availability. Feel free to tag yourself if you want to meet fellow FTers.
Eg:
MXP-CDG-AMS-KRK-AMS-CDG-MXP in J, 2021-01-01/02, 570 , 180 XP
HEL-AMS-LAX-AMS-HEL in J, 2022-08-16/18, 1059 , 204 XP (@XXXFlyer arriving at 11:50 AM, leaving at 06:00 AM)



Upcoming runs:
MXP-CDG-AMS-KRK in J on 2022/07/21-22, 380 - 45XP (8,44/XP) : one way

Past runs:
For future reference, log below your most interesting XP runs:

KRK-AMS-CDG-BCN-AMS-CDG-KRK, 2021-07-22/24, 576 , 180 XP
ATH-CDG-AMS-KRK-AMS-CDG-ATH in J, 2021-09-18/19, 561
KRK-AMS-CDG-LIS-CDG-AMS-KRK, 2021-07-22/28, 492 180 XP
NTE-CDG-AMS-LIS-CDG-LYS-NTE, 2021-09-25/26, 157 /42XP
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Mileage runs for Flying Blue - best routes?

Old Oct 6, 2018, 11:19 am
  #271  
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Oh dear, how do you work all that out? I found Expedia and Orbitz distinctly unhelpful (I know they are the same) and they annoyingly only allow the construction of 5 separate segments. The Air France site was even worse and always said, no matter what I did, that there was not enough ttime between connections even though there was. So far, I have only looked ex Milan. One thing that was good was that a Business class price of EUR449 was proposed with a single transfer in CDG, which is not bad given that an Economy ticket is going to cost around EUR300 anyway. I haven’t given BSL a try yet. Maybe this would be one for a call center agent this time.
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Old Oct 7, 2018, 4:11 am
  #272  
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Originally Posted by Concerto
Oh dear, how do you work all that out?
To do the searching, ITA matrix is your friend, even more so when complemented by the Ita-matrix powertools to do the buying (although the latter is having some hiccups at the moment as discussed at the end of the thread.
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Old Oct 7, 2018, 9:27 am
  #273  
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No good. Ive never been able to work that thing out and its just been a frustrating waste of time every time. Even a simple round trip search yields stupid prices compared to those on Expedia. Ill have to find another way. I know Im not alone here feeling like this about it.
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Old Oct 7, 2018, 9:44 am
  #274  
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Originally Posted by Concerto
No good. Ive never been able to work that thing out and its just been a frustrating waste of time every time. Even a simple round trip search yields stupid prices compared to those on Expedia. Ill have to find another way. I know Im not alone here feeling like this about it.
Even for business class itineraries? For cheapest and simple one-stop routings in economy class, ita can be sub-optimal with the proliferation of hand-baggage-only fares that are not handled by GDSs or the surcharges that are imposed by airlines. For more complex itineraries, especially for those in business class, I still find ITA invaluable. What I do is that I normally start off by un-ticking the "Only show flights and prices with available seats" to give me some idea of the base-line then re-enable it and work to find availability in relevant classes, using routing codes and/or extensions to fine-tune/circumscribe to what I want. The functionality has diminished somewhat by the fact that one can no longer search in a single stroke with alternative departure points in several countries but it is still a very useful tool for complex searches and takes out a lot of the blind work that would be involved when searching on OTAs' or airlines' booking engines.

Presumably, even if you do not use ita matrix, you nonetheless use comparisons sites such as kayak or skyscanner?
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Old Oct 8, 2018, 3:35 am
  #275  
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I don’t use any of those, I just get in there and do the drudge work or book what I’m told to, within reason (for work). I find the German version of Expedia very helpful. The times I’ve tried to use ITA I’ve found it an annoying waste of time and over complicated and it’s yielded nothing for me. But to try and route European tickets through AMS and CDG is not working at all, so I’ll have to forget it. There just comes a point where I no longer have the time to fiddle endlessly and have to get on with normal work. For example, I can’t play decent concerts without hours of practice! It’s a shame about ITA but, like the iPhone, it really doesn’t work for me.
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Old Oct 10, 2018, 3:52 pm
  #276  
 
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Originally Posted by NickB
Even for business class itineraries? For cheapest and simple one-stop routings in economy class, ita can be sub-optimal with the proliferation of hand-baggage-only fares that are not handled by GDSs or the surcharges that are imposed by airlines. For more complex itineraries, especially for those in business class, I still find ITA invaluable. What I do is that I normally start off by un-ticking the "Only show flights and prices with available seats" to give me some idea of the base-line then re-enable it and work to find availability in relevant classes, using routing codes and/or extensions to fine-tune/circumscribe to what I want. The functionality has diminished somewhat by the fact that one can no longer search in a single stroke with alternative departure points in several countries but it is still a very useful tool for complex searches and takes out a lot of the blind work that would be involved when searching on OTAs' or airlines' booking engines.

Presumably, even if you do not use ita matrix, you nonetheless use comparisons sites such as kayak or skyscanner?
Huh? I just did a search with a departure point in two countries, a multicity too... and regularly do even four countries (I travel between AMS and KSC, but based on different circumstances, I am open to depart from Slovakia - KSC, Hungary - BUD, Austria - VIE and Czech Republic - BRQ or PRG).

edit: Tried GVA and MIL, and got the error. Apparently it considers EU a single country... or it allows destinations in multiple countries, as long as there is a single origin.

I consider it an indispensable tool, though sometimes hard to use.

Originally Posted by Concerto
I dont use any of those, I just get in there and do the drudge work or book what Im told to, within reason (for work). I find the German version of Expedia very helpful. The times Ive tried to use ITA Ive found it an annoying waste of time and over complicated and its yielded nothing for me. But to try and route European tickets through AMS and CDG is not working at all, so Ill have to forget it. There just comes a point where I no longer have the time to fiddle endlessly and have to get on with normal work. For example, I cant play decent concerts without hours of practice! Its a shame about ITA but, like the iPhone, it really doesnt work for me.
If Matrix doesn't work for you, try Google Flights. In some ways, it's even more powerful.

Unfortunately, doesn't seem to be any good two-stop deals to Moscow.
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Old Oct 11, 2018, 3:10 am
  #277  
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Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
edit: Tried GVA and MIL, and got the error. Apparently it considers EU a single country... or it allows destinations in multiple countries, as long as there is a single origin.
The latter. It will allow destinations across multiple countries but not origins (and does not treat the EU as a single country either. Try with 'CDG, AMS' as departure, for instance, and see the result). Discussed here. Rather a pain for me but so be it.
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Old Oct 11, 2018, 5:37 am
  #278  
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Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
Huh? I just did a search with a departure point in two countries, a multicity too... and regularly do even four countries (I travel between AMS and KSC, but based on different circumstances, I am open to depart from Slovakia - KSC, Hungary - BUD, Austria - VIE and Czech Republic - BRQ or PRG).

edit: Tried GVA and MIL, and got the error. Apparently it considers EU a single country... or it allows destinations in multiple countries, as long as there is a single origin.

I consider it an indispensable tool, though sometimes hard to use.



If Matrix doesn't work for you, try Google Flights. In some ways, it's even more powerful.

Unfortunately, doesn't seem to be any good two-stop deals to Moscow.
No, there isnt. I think forcing a transfer through both CDG and AMS works on certain intercontinental itineraries, because thats how I did it before. Google Flights is an excellent suggestion, though.
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Old Oct 11, 2018, 6:17 am
  #279  
 
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Originally Posted by Concerto


No, there isnt. I think forcing a transfer through both CDG and AMS works on certain intercontinental itineraries, because thats how I did it before. Google Flights is an excellent suggestion, though.
It works on European itineraries as well, sometimes. But not always.
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Old Oct 11, 2018, 7:42 am
  #280  
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Originally Posted by Fabo.sk
It works on European itineraries as well, sometimes. But not always.
On intra-European, it mostly works on AF fares to KL destinations which are not served by AF but there are exceptions (both positive and negative).
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Old Oct 11, 2018, 3:48 pm
  #281  
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I'm not getting any quotations for KLM flights, but Air France flights with one transfer (at CDG) are coming in around EUR445. They all arrive in the middle of the night, which is horrible. Doesn't seem to be anything that arrives at a reasonable time of day. Plus, I will probably be held up for ages trying to immigrate with my Fan ID again. Last time it took over an hour, sitting in a room while they took photos, looked things up and generally wasted time.

EDIT- I'm seeing RT Economy class tickets for as little as EUR145! I think that is an amazingly good price for such a destination and am tempted just to take that and forget the search for a business class booking. Given that would yield 20XPs, that means that business, being priced 3 times more at about EUR450, yields 3 times the XPs, namely 60XPs. So that makes the XPs pretty related to the price ratio here, which seems fair.

The other thing is, arriving in Moscow in the middle of the night is a pain because the Airport Express is not operating.

Last edited by Concerto; Oct 11, 2018 at 4:24 pm Reason: more info
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Old Oct 12, 2018, 5:25 pm
  #282  
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Just as another data point, I am unable to find open jaw itineraries for trips to Moscow. While Air France are offering EUR443 from MXP to SVO and EUR427 from BSL to SVO in Business, if you try and create an open jaw, say leaving from MXP and coming back to BSL or GVA, the price goes up to EUR2,740 or similar. So from reasonable prices (for the distances involved) to stupid prices. Shame, for I would find it really handy not having to come back to Malpensa at the end of the trip. As for the EUR145-186 Economy fares, I really don't want to arrive at 1 or 2 in the morning, suffer through immigration and be dog tired, needing the next 6 days of my visit there to recuperate. Some of the EUR182-186 Economy fares are with Alitalia through Rome, yielding even less TPs (these domestic flights are really to be avoided these days). I don't fancy Alitalia, because I suspect the long sector from Rome to Moscow will be a starvation flight, whereas Aeroflot offer proper catering in Economy with hot meals.
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Old Oct 13, 2018, 12:17 pm
  #283  
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Originally Posted by Concerto
Just as another data point, I am unable to find open jaw itineraries for trips to Moscow. While Air France are offering EUR443 from MXP to SVO and EUR427 from BSL to SVO in Business, if you try and create an open jaw, say leaving from MXP and coming back to BSL or GVA, the price goes up to EUR2,740 or similar. So from reasonable prices (for the distances involved) to stupid prices. Shame, for I would find it really handy not having to come back to Malpensa at the end of the trip. As for the EUR145-186 Economy fares, I really don't want to arrive at 1 or 2 in the morning, suffer through immigration and be dog tired, needing the next 6 days of my visit there to recuperate. Some of the EUR182-186 Economy fares are with Alitalia through Rome, yielding even less TPs (these domestic flights are really to be avoided these days). I don't fancy Alitalia, because I suspect the long sector from Rome to Moscow will be a starvation flight, whereas Aeroflot offer proper catering in Economy with hot meals.
Most AF/KL intra-European fares other than fully flex only allow open-jaw at origin if both airports are within the same country. So:
MXP-SVO-FCO: OK;
GVA-SVO-BSL: OK.
MXP-SVO-GVA: not OK.

Can't remember whether this is true at destination too or whether they do allow a cross-border open-jaw at destination.
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 4:07 am
  #284  
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Interesting info. I checked that out and it is very much the case. Previously, you could do all sorts of open jaw tickets in Europe, especially with KLM. Now they simply won’t price at KLM at all. Everything gets worse, doesn’t it? Although I admit, ticket prices are at the lowest level I have ever seen them now.

I was clearing out some shelves yesterday and I found some tickets from the early 2000s.
One was my last handwritten paper ticket, on AF starting in Aberdeen in 2003: ABZ-CDG-MRS/MRS-CDG-BRS total cost - GBP300 on the nose.
Another was a KLM double open jaw in 2006: ZRH-AMS-LHR/MAN-AMS-GVA total cost was - CHF414. The last 2 segments were the day after the liquids plot crisis in 2006 and absolutely everything had to go in the hold. Needless to say none of my stuff turned up at GVA, including my house keys.

Of course, prices are different now, especially for the second example. It makes a Business RT price of c. EUR440 on the Moscow route seem not such a bad deal for the distance. And, most importantly, in the old days it didn’t matter whether you were in Economy or Business, the segment count was the same. Now, the XP count is surprisingly accurate, at 3x the XPs of Economy.

Last edited by Concerto; Oct 14, 2018 at 8:59 am Reason: typos
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 4:27 am
  #285  
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Originally Posted by Concerto
Now, the XP count is surprisingly accurate, at 3x the XPs of Economy.
Unless you are flying direct with KLM. Business is generally about 5-6 times more than discount economy. Prices of 1000-1200 euro roundtrip seems to be the standard for medium haul (Eg IST, ATH, FCO), while economy can be had from 150 euro.
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