Xandrios

I did quickly look into this for NL; however here it is required that a) its a registered charity (Which AFKL obviously is not) and b) one is not allowed to receive anything in return for the donation. Things may be different in France but I would check the fineprint. In NL this will not work.

Sjondorn

I'd imagine that rollover could be capped to 300XP or something which IMO would reduce the number of affected flyers significantly and would "weed" out the free bonus XPs?

Also I'm bit doubtful AF / KLM can roll out a FB program that's more alike Delta (i.e. stricter Platinum / Diamond but more rewarding), simple reason being geography. Domestic flights in US is a big thing and is decentralized. The "big benefit" you get in US domestic flights is upgrade to first class priority, the rest is moreless the same (i.e. priority, free lounge access (for Delta Sky Club, you'll need platinum, although in US you own a CC anyways), more miles to get award tickets).

Concerto

Another possibility is that they say you can keep your XPs and any rollover, but you have to complete a certain number, or level, of XP earning flights in a year, say 180 like Gold. I think that is a plausible solution.

maalloc

If past actions are to be trusted, the new rules will probably be a) simple b) arbitrary.

Think early 2020, when they generously froze status for members with very tight eligibility windows. They had no problem renewing status for members with anniversary date between January and March, then again from August to December (I leave it as an exercise to the reader to dig the exact months). It was neither fair to all members, nor especially generous (since members with points did get their points deducted whereas those who stayed home just ended up at zero).

The only fair and generous offer for the past 2 years was the double-XP thing. I would only be half-surprised if they killed it retroactively by preventing XP rollover altogether. A slap in the face? A breach of good faith towards pax that supported them during Covid? Certainly. But this "gift" was a strange exception in the overall strategy. Maybe they see it as a glitch that needs to be fixed.

Digicola

Heres the thing, if you look at the trinity of FFP qualification criteria there is:

-No Qualifying Segments (status can be fully earned on partner airlines)
-Soft landing
-Rollover credits

If we compare FB with many other programs its very apparent that it is a very generous program as we have all three. BA, LH, US3, SQ, QF etc… none if the other major programs are as lenient. The simple fact that Plat can be earned without setting food on an AF/KL plane is telling.

So I think one of these will have to go at the very least, and I hope they will just introduce a minimum segment requirement.

I’m really thinking in a cynical way but BA reduced their TP requirements, double TP would have been problematic as it would have made lifetime BAGold too easy due to the nature of the program.

Meanwhile LH which has been very vocal about redoing their whole FFP has been giving out multipliers. Me says AF knows long term the 2x xp sabotages the program (they discontinued miles after the first round) and I suspect they see how many people will get pfl from the xp and they’re ok with it because they will overhaul the system and wipe everything out or at least make it so it isn’t so self destructive for them.

maalloc

That's one way to see it (and I agree with you it's probably theirs).
The other way to see it is that those who piled up on XP in 2020-2021 brought the airline much-needed cash flow at dire times.

Let's not forget how close the airline came to bankruptcy during Covid.
Shareholders and taxpayers money was heavily used, and flying pax were a rare resource. So what if a few hundred pax end up with PFL? They are those who should be thanked for their loyalty. One could consider it the reward for their monetary investment at difficult times.

But of course, in France, it is probably considered as an "undue privilege" that needs to be wiped out one way or another

wuzziduzziman

Fully agree with this view. Also, I'm having a difficult time believing that tons of double XP runners were flying around the globe in view of reaching PFL. Travelling was a real hazzle back then, full of risks to get stuck somewhere (e.g. positive PCR test @ destination and getting quarantined somewhere for 2 weeks, which happened to some of my colleagues on regular bizz trips...).

Xandrios

On the other hand, status doesn't cost money. Yes the lounges are maybe a little more crowded, but when flying partner airlines that's not even AFKL's problem. Expecting higher visitor numbers in the lounges doesn't show up on the balance sheet. While giving out award miles has a direct cost as they will have to put that into the books as a negative value.

thibderoc

Don't forget that a lot of PFL would still be platinum because of flying, so it wouldn't change anything for AF.

You have to only take into consideration those who are PFL but don't fly enough to maintain status.

Focusing on these :
As pointed by Xandrios, for the lounges, at least those managed by AF/KLM, it doesn't change anything on the balance sheet. For lounges at outstations, it is probably different.
Award miles : it is a cost but with regular devaluation, the cost is under control
Free seat selection : it is a direct cost also but only if there isn't enough platinum passenger willing to have those seats AND if other passengers are willing to pay AND the flight is full.

I'd be curious to know how many segments (globally) are flow each year by PFL who wouldn't be Platinum otherwise.

Digicola

Frequent flyer programs aren’t meant to reward us, they’re meant to keep us captive while our money is siphoned away. They already rewarded us by multiplying our xp and miles. Loyalty means absolutely, just look at the ulti thread.

Those who earned Plat before covid will probably be able to again. Those who banked xp during covid (don’t forget they also did the xp freeze/support) won’t be able to just sit back and let the counter tick whilst buying rock bottom 280€ tickets to JFK.

I hope I am wrong but I think this is just wishful thinking on our behalf. A couple of years of profitability and they’ll be whipping our their scalpel and they’ll start trimming the fat again. God forbid they adopt the North American model of Qualifying dollars.

Digicola

Just on this, everytime someone swipes their AF/KL card to enter a lounge somewhere, be it skyteam or third party contract lounge, they charge a fee to FB so there is a direct cost.

Fabo.sk

I'm quite sure they're charging the operating airline, not FB.

hhdl

Partner flights result in nearly free money for AFKL. The partner is effectively buying miles from AFKL (almost certainly at something less than 0.01 EUR per mile) for which AFKL incurs no immediate cash expense (and the miles are subject to devaluation at AFKL's sole discretion). Considering what the cost of capital is like for airlines (given their well-deserved reputation as capital incinerators, especially when FF programs are removed from consideration) and the typical delay between mileage earn and mileage burn, someone in the US who makes Platinum exclusively from flying DL and putting $15k a year on the credit card is likely more profitable than the median Platinum (including Ulti).

MrBarryK

Hello fellow frequent flyers.

Are there any mileage runs from AMS to London? With stopovers somewhere, preferably on one day or two days in total…

TographerE

Best I can find is going AMS > CDG > LHR