Jul 28, 2021, 7:32 am
Last edit by: Coder33
Wiki for Mileage/XP Runs
Indicate below your itinerary, availability dates, price and XP. Please only log runs with confirmed fares availability. Feel free to tag yourself if you want to meet fellow FTers.
Eg:
MXP-CDG-AMS-KRK-AMS-CDG-MXP in J, 2021-01-01/02, 570 €, 180 XP
HEL-AMS-LAX-AMS-HEL in J, 2022-08-16/18, 1059 €, 204 XP (@XXXFlyer arriving at 11:50 AM, leaving at 06:00 AM)
Upcoming runs:
MXP-CDG-AMS-KRK in J on 2022/07/21-22, 380€ - 45XP (8,44€/XP) : one way
Past runs:
For future reference, log below your most interesting XP runs:
KRK-AMS-CDG-BCN-AMS-CDG-KRK, 2021-07-22/24, 576 €, 180 XP
ATH-CDG-AMS-KRK-AMS-CDG-ATH in J, 2021-09-18/19, 561€
KRK-AMS-CDG-LIS-CDG-AMS-KRK, 2021-07-22/28, 492 € 180 XP
NTE-CDG-AMS-LIS-CDG-LYS-NTE, 2021-09-25/26, 157 €/42XP
Indicate below your itinerary, availability dates, price and XP. Please only log runs with confirmed fares availability. Feel free to tag yourself if you want to meet fellow FTers.
Eg:
MXP-CDG-AMS-KRK-AMS-CDG-MXP in J, 2021-01-01/02, 570 €, 180 XP
HEL-AMS-LAX-AMS-HEL in J, 2022-08-16/18, 1059 €, 204 XP (@XXXFlyer arriving at 11:50 AM, leaving at 06:00 AM)
Upcoming runs:
MXP-CDG-AMS-KRK in J on 2022/07/21-22, 380€ - 45XP (8,44€/XP) : one way
Past runs:
For future reference, log below your most interesting XP runs:
KRK-AMS-CDG-BCN-AMS-CDG-KRK, 2021-07-22/24, 576 €, 180 XP
ATH-CDG-AMS-KRK-AMS-CDG-ATH in J, 2021-09-18/19, 561€
KRK-AMS-CDG-LIS-CDG-AMS-KRK, 2021-07-22/28, 492 € 180 XP
NTE-CDG-AMS-LIS-CDG-LYS-NTE, 2021-09-25/26, 157 €/42XP
Mileage runs for Flying Blue - best routes?
Jul 28, 2021, 2:45 pm
#1501
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: YTZ, YYZ, AMS
Programs: Platinum Zirconium in Life, aeroplan, FB, Avios, IHG
Posts: 603
This one always pops up. Curious if anyone has done this during nonCorona times and if it is easy to do a quick turn on the reverse route? 30XPs worth it?
Jul 28, 2021, 2:58 pm
#1502
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,362
Indeed but even that, I think, is not quite as good as it used to be. In the old days, when you called an airline, they could manually make a booking and then send it to their fares department to check and 'manually' confirm conformity with the fare rules. Nowadays, I think that, except perhaps for things like RTW fares, you are pretty much at the mercy of what the computer says so that, even if in theory your itinerary is within the fare rules, if the computer says no, that is usually the end of it.
Jul 31, 2021, 7:43 am
#1503
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,609
Just to give an update, I completed my whole trip including all 12 flights on Air France KLM without a single issue. That is mostly due to the advice and recommendations I got from you all here, so if you want to do something like this it seems that it is very likely that it would work out fine. The trip included 4 segments (positioning flights) in Lufthansa Economy, which were not particularly pleasant but got me punctually and safely to where I was going, which is the main thing.
I think that the best thing I did was to leave 2 nights between directions of travel, so I could enjoy both destinations of Krakow and Lisbon a bit. I also found the whole flying experience, with 3 flights a day, quite tiring. It also reassured me to know that there was enough buffer time in case something went wrong, or if there was some other issue to deal with (there was, and I exhort all of you to not forget to complete your bedbug checks when you first step into a hotel room).
My general takeaway is that service levels have plummeted on AFKL and the food was mostly terrible, in some cases inedible in the case of KLM. Things were a little bit better on Air France, but even there you were at the mercy of the lottery that dictates that you might well end up with what was a hostile crew on one flight. However, no KLM crew was hostile, far from it. But some of them really did not know how to deliver service and the experience was extremely un premium. The main culprit is KLM Cityhopper, where crews are really a mixed bag. I think I had really good crews about 35% of the time, ok crews for about 30% of the time, and poor to awful crews for the remaining 35%. That is a statistic that is unacceptable. As a sidenote, the Lufthansa crews were even worse, but I will write about that in the LH forum.
I think that the best thing I did was to leave 2 nights between directions of travel, so I could enjoy both destinations of Krakow and Lisbon a bit. I also found the whole flying experience, with 3 flights a day, quite tiring. It also reassured me to know that there was enough buffer time in case something went wrong, or if there was some other issue to deal with (there was, and I exhort all of you to not forget to complete your bedbug checks when you first step into a hotel room).
My general takeaway is that service levels have plummeted on AFKL and the food was mostly terrible, in some cases inedible in the case of KLM. Things were a little bit better on Air France, but even there you were at the mercy of the lottery that dictates that you might well end up with what was a hostile crew on one flight. However, no KLM crew was hostile, far from it. But some of them really did not know how to deliver service and the experience was extremely un premium. The main culprit is KLM Cityhopper, where crews are really a mixed bag. I think I had really good crews about 35% of the time, ok crews for about 30% of the time, and poor to awful crews for the remaining 35%. That is a statistic that is unacceptable. As a sidenote, the Lufthansa crews were even worse, but I will write about that in the LH forum.
Jul 31, 2021, 9:14 am
#1504
Join Date: Jun 2020
Programs: FlyingBlue
Posts: 2,418
Ahh bedbugs. Lately the most ubiquitous traveller's souvenir (right between tacky fridge magnets and landscape mugs on Lonely Planet's "Must bring back home" list).
Glad you could fly all your segments safely and enjoy your destinations. That produces more memories than 12 short-haul EU flights, even though current AF J short-haul service deserves to be remembered for other reasons.
KUL-CGK is the last leg of AMS-CGK so it's operated on a widebody. As far as XP runs go, it's as comfortable as it gets!
CGK and KUL ST lounges also used to be top-notch,compared to most countryside airports commonly used on EU XP runs. No idea of the current situation though, haven't been there since last year. Do keep in mind that crossing borders between Malaysia and Indonesia won't be a breeze for a long time.
Glad you could fly all your segments safely and enjoy your destinations. That produces more memories than 12 short-haul EU flights, even though current AF J short-haul service deserves to be remembered for other reasons.
CGK and KUL ST lounges also used to be top-notch,compared to most countryside airports commonly used on EU XP runs. No idea of the current situation though, haven't been there since last year. Do keep in mind that crossing borders between Malaysia and Indonesia won't be a breeze for a long time.
Last edited by maalloc; Jul 31, 2021 at 9:19 am
Jul 31, 2021, 9:22 am
#1505
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: ARN
Programs: AF, BA, SK, Marriott & Hilton
Posts: 129
It is tiresome to take many flights a day, so 4 days in a row, I can imagine you got very tired Concerto
(especially with bedbugs...)
I agree on your negative comments regarding food on KLM and the positive ones on crew members.
When I did my last segment of my trip last week end, one of the KLM crew member came to me and said: "thank you to be a loyal customer".
and apart from the AMS-KRK late on saturday evening, the air hostess taking care of us in the sunday morning flight was also very kind with us.
I guess we all have different experiences.
(especially with bedbugs...)
I agree on your negative comments regarding food on KLM and the positive ones on crew members.
When I did my last segment of my trip last week end, one of the KLM crew member came to me and said: "thank you to be a loyal customer".
and apart from the AMS-KRK late on saturday evening, the air hostess taking care of us in the sunday morning flight was also very kind with us.
I guess we all have different experiences.
Jul 31, 2021, 11:56 am
#1506
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,609
Yeah, I'm afraid mine were not good. My overall general impression and memory of the crews is not positive, which is a shame. So, passengers are misbehaving sometimes, perhaps more in the USA than here, but I think crews have to watch out for not inadvertently creating situations that might lead to hostility on both sides.
However - crews are front line workers and it's not easy for them. It's not been easy for them for over a year, it's still not easy and it won't be easy for quite some time yet. And let's face it, it's never really "easy" for them.
Did anybody else experience crews that were a bit off? The Lufthansa ones were dreadful, they should be ashamed of themselves. In fact, I think I will write to them about it. Ok, if they want to sell rubbish from that BoB trolley at those stupid prices (for heaven's sake, what does it cost them to offer people a cup of tea???) then they should announce in German and English, does anyone want to purchase drinks or snacks from the trolley as they're going down. And don't berate people if they had no idea that's why that thing got quickly and silently pushed down the aisle. It's dreadful, I'm at the point where I really hate Lufthansa and SWISS equally along with the arrogant people who work there.
However - crews are front line workers and it's not easy for them. It's not been easy for them for over a year, it's still not easy and it won't be easy for quite some time yet. And let's face it, it's never really "easy" for them.
Did anybody else experience crews that were a bit off? The Lufthansa ones were dreadful, they should be ashamed of themselves. In fact, I think I will write to them about it. Ok, if they want to sell rubbish from that BoB trolley at those stupid prices (for heaven's sake, what does it cost them to offer people a cup of tea???) then they should announce in German and English, does anyone want to purchase drinks or snacks from the trolley as they're going down. And don't berate people if they had no idea that's why that thing got quickly and silently pushed down the aisle. It's dreadful, I'm at the point where I really hate Lufthansa and SWISS equally along with the arrogant people who work there.
Jul 31, 2021, 1:43 pm
#1507
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
It is true that availability on ITA may not be up to the second and can generate results sometimes when, in real time, availability has disappeared but, IME, this is relatively marginal and not the main factor in explaining fare differences between different channels.
The notion of "accuracy" in this context is a difficult one. All channels will have their own biases. This is normally hardly noticeable on a simple A to B one way or return direct flight. As soon as you have a more complex itinerary, different search engines can produce different results. Theoretically, with unlimited time and unlimited computing power, all search engines should yield the same outcome: work out all possible combinations of fare and routing and produce the best outcome for the criteria which are specified. In practice, this is not possible: a search engine is expected to produce a result within a few seconds, not let the client wait for half an hour to get a result and it will return the best results that it can identify within a specified time limit and using limited computing resources. Different search engines will use different algorithms to 'optimise' the search and, therefore, with the same theoretical fare availability and the same source data, you could end up with different results. ITA Matrix is outstandingly good at this game but it can be 'too good' in the sense that it will carry out searches and produce results that other search engines will not find because the search algorithm they use will not have included these. For instance, ITA will have no problem generating all theoretical 3 flight combinations between A and B and present them to you in price order. Do the same thing on the AF or KL site and three flight itineraries may simply not show up at all, as the search engine will favour direct or one-stop flight and discard itineraries which the algorithm considers to be unlikely to appeal to the majority of flyers. Similarly, OTAs will have their own optimisation algorithms and will not display some itineraries which are in principle available but which the algorithm has rejected as, for instance, involving too long a wait when an alternative itinerary leaving at about the same time takes far less time.
Many people are weary to book on OTAs and prefer to book on the airline's website to avoid having to deal with the OTA in case of irrops. This is understandable and, in that case, tools like ITA will be of limited use, especially now that airline search engines are less likely to accept complex requests from outside sources than was the case in the past. If, OTOH, you are open to using a range of booking channels and even possibly an old-fashioned travel agent that still does things 'by hand', so to speak, then ITA is imo invaluable to define the range of theoretical possibilities and therefore whether it is worth spending time looking around on a variety of channels to produce a particular outcome. Use of comparator sites like google flights, Skyscanner or Kayak can also be useful but there is not a single, universally optimal solution. It does depend to a significant extent of the amount of time you are ready to spend researching an itinerary.
The notion of "accuracy" in this context is a difficult one. All channels will have their own biases. This is normally hardly noticeable on a simple A to B one way or return direct flight. As soon as you have a more complex itinerary, different search engines can produce different results. Theoretically, with unlimited time and unlimited computing power, all search engines should yield the same outcome: work out all possible combinations of fare and routing and produce the best outcome for the criteria which are specified. In practice, this is not possible: a search engine is expected to produce a result within a few seconds, not let the client wait for half an hour to get a result and it will return the best results that it can identify within a specified time limit and using limited computing resources. Different search engines will use different algorithms to 'optimise' the search and, therefore, with the same theoretical fare availability and the same source data, you could end up with different results. ITA Matrix is outstandingly good at this game but it can be 'too good' in the sense that it will carry out searches and produce results that other search engines will not find because the search algorithm they use will not have included these. For instance, ITA will have no problem generating all theoretical 3 flight combinations between A and B and present them to you in price order. Do the same thing on the AF or KL site and three flight itineraries may simply not show up at all, as the search engine will favour direct or one-stop flight and discard itineraries which the algorithm considers to be unlikely to appeal to the majority of flyers. Similarly, OTAs will have their own optimisation algorithms and will not display some itineraries which are in principle available but which the algorithm has rejected as, for instance, involving too long a wait when an alternative itinerary leaving at about the same time takes far less time.
Many people are weary to book on OTAs and prefer to book on the airline's website to avoid having to deal with the OTA in case of irrops. This is understandable and, in that case, tools like ITA will be of limited use, especially now that airline search engines are less likely to accept complex requests from outside sources than was the case in the past. If, OTOH, you are open to using a range of booking channels and even possibly an old-fashioned travel agent that still does things 'by hand', so to speak, then ITA is imo invaluable to define the range of theoretical possibilities and therefore whether it is worth spending time looking around on a variety of channels to produce a particular outcome. Use of comparator sites like google flights, Skyscanner or Kayak can also be useful but there is not a single, universally optimal solution. It does depend to a significant extent of the amount of time you are ready to spend researching an itinerary.
The other component is whether there is dynamic pricing going on on the AF side based on history, location, etc. In summary, the days of simple pricing are long gone.
Jul 31, 2021, 2:49 pm
#1508
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NUE
Programs: *G (TK elite+), OW sapphire (QR), ST elite plus (AF). LA black
Posts: 3,674
haha - Alitalia crews lately - at least they have an excuse for being grumpy and being almost invisible 
BTW, I have booked only one 480€ KRK trip so far - Evening flight to CDG, overnight in PAR, morning flight to AMS to enjoy one day in Amsterdam, then evening flight to KRK. On the way back I take the afternoon flight to AMS, stay there for the night and proceed with another early morning flight to PAR to have a fun day in the French capital before I fly back in the evening. My kind of maximizing such a run Three cities on a long weekend and lots of XP as bonus.
P.S. Which hotel should be avoided when one doesn’t want to meet bed bugs?
BTW, I have booked only one 480€ KRK trip so far - Evening flight to CDG, overnight in PAR, morning flight to AMS to enjoy one day in Amsterdam, then evening flight to KRK. On the way back I take the afternoon flight to AMS, stay there for the night and proceed with another early morning flight to PAR to have a fun day in the French capital before I fly back in the evening. My kind of maximizing such a run
Three cities on a long weekend and lots of XP as bonus.P.S. Which hotel should be avoided when one doesn’t want to meet bed bugs?
Jul 31, 2021, 2:51 pm
#1509
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,609
I am writing a trip report about this adventure, which can be found in the trip report forum. I think it's better not to clutter up this thread with my experiences, so we can keep it focused on mileage and XP run opportunities. I am completing it rather slowly, because I have been busy with rehearsals and other work. Here is the link:
The Crazy Krakow Lisbon XP Run
The Crazy Krakow Lisbon XP Run
Jul 31, 2021, 2:54 pm
#1510
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
haha - Alitalia crews lately - at least they have an excuse for being grumpy and being almost invisible
BTW, I have booked only one 480€ KRK trip so far - Evening flight to CDG, overnight in PAR, morning flight to AMS to enjoy one day in Amsterdam, then evening flight to KRK. On the way back I take the afternoon flight to AMS, stay there for the night and proceed with another early morning flight to PAR to have a fun day in the French capital before I fly back in the evening. My kind of maximizing such a run Three cities on a long weekend and lots of XP as bonus.
P.S. Which hotel should be avoided when one doesn’t want to meet bed bugs?
BTW, I have booked only one 480€ KRK trip so far - Evening flight to CDG, overnight in PAR, morning flight to AMS to enjoy one day in Amsterdam, then evening flight to KRK. On the way back I take the afternoon flight to AMS, stay there for the night and proceed with another early morning flight to PAR to have a fun day in the French capital before I fly back in the evening. My kind of maximizing such a run
Three cities on a long weekend and lots of XP as bonus.P.S. Which hotel should be avoided when one doesn’t want to meet bed bugs?
When I get home, it gets emptied immediately and put outside.
The critters are everywhere these days... 5-star hotels included.
ps I will be staying at the Holiday Inn Krakow City Centre next week and will let you know what I think :-)
Jul 31, 2021, 3:38 pm
#1511
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,609
I think Boston traveller is right, they are everywhere and you have to literally disinfectant yourself, separate your stuff out, and wash all your clothes when you get home. I had a lucky escape, I think. I soaked my clothes in hot water with some bleach added, then passed them through the washing machine, then gave them 40 minutes in the dryer on the hottest setting. Another way is to freeze your clothes, if you have enough freezer space. Freezing definitely kills them.
If you are doing mileage runs like this, you really have to pay attention to this danger. On YouTube you can find a 5 minute video which explains the procedure you should go through when you arrive in your hotel room. It's 3-5 minutes work to do the check and I think it's well worth it. Trouble is, I think I got my small brush with this, maybe a solitary parasite, from a train seat, or maybe a bus seat, because I had had no hotel stays before this happened.
Would be interested to know what the Holiday Inn Krakow is like. I enjoyed the Indigo, but I slept better at the ibis. The Holiday Inn Lisbon was really good, I liked it.
If you are doing mileage runs like this, you really have to pay attention to this danger. On YouTube you can find a 5 minute video which explains the procedure you should go through when you arrive in your hotel room. It's 3-5 minutes work to do the check and I think it's well worth it. Trouble is, I think I got my small brush with this, maybe a solitary parasite, from a train seat, or maybe a bus seat, because I had had no hotel stays before this happened.
Would be interested to know what the Holiday Inn Krakow is like. I enjoyed the Indigo, but I slept better at the ibis. The Holiday Inn Lisbon was really good, I liked it.
Jul 31, 2021, 4:54 pm
#1512
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
I think Boston traveller is right, they are everywhere and you have to literally disinfectant yourself, separate your stuff out, and wash all your clothes when you get home. I had a lucky escape, I think. I soaked my clothes in hot water with some bleach added, then passed them through the washing machine, then gave them 40 minutes in the dryer on the hottest setting. Another way is to freeze your clothes, if you have enough freezer space. Freezing definitely kills them.
If you are doing mileage runs like this, you really have to pay attention to this danger. On YouTube you can find a 5 minute video which explains the procedure you should go through when you arrive in your hotel room. It's 3-5 minutes work to do the check and I think it's well worth it. Trouble is, I think I got my small brush with this, maybe a solitary parasite, from a train seat, or maybe a bus seat, because I had had no hotel stays before this happened.
Would be interested to know what the Holiday Inn Krakow is like. I enjoyed the Indigo, but I slept better at the ibis. The Holiday Inn Lisbon was really good, I liked it.
If you are doing mileage runs like this, you really have to pay attention to this danger. On YouTube you can find a 5 minute video which explains the procedure you should go through when you arrive in your hotel room. It's 3-5 minutes work to do the check and I think it's well worth it. Trouble is, I think I got my small brush with this, maybe a solitary parasite, from a train seat, or maybe a bus seat, because I had had no hotel stays before this happened.
Would be interested to know what the Holiday Inn Krakow is like. I enjoyed the Indigo, but I slept better at the ibis. The Holiday Inn Lisbon was really good, I liked it.
IMO the worst places are the places with the most traffic. I am on red alert in NYC... the amount of vermin is notorious also given the fact that there is less attention in my opinion to cleanliness. London isn't much better. But no place is spared.
I don't want to shift the conversation to insect infestation but I found a nice NYC cockroach in my bag this week... after a 5-star hotel stay... it's a shame that French customs didn't seize that from me!!! Beats the "kitty" behind my curtain in Ho Chi Minh a few years ago but at least I could leave her behind! (OK I will stop).
ps: Happy to report on HI Krakow... it was a steal and gets great reviews. In the US, I would generally refuse but internationally it's a different story. And for a 2 night stay it meets my needs.
Aug 1, 2021, 6:54 am
#1513
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,362
In some 40 or so years of traveling, and regularly in places which are anything but luxurious, I encountered them a grand total of once. It is a humungous pain in the neck to get rid of when it does occur but it is, IME, rare enough not to become obsessional about it and check every hotel bed I sleep in.
Aug 1, 2021, 8:56 am
#1514
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,906
In some 40 or so years of traveling, and regularly in places which are anything but luxurious, I encountered them a grand total of once. It is a humungous pain in the neck to get rid of when it does occur but it is, IME, rare enough not to become obsessional about it and check every hotel bed I sleep in.
Aug 1, 2021, 9:02 am
#1515
Join Date: Jun 2020
Programs: FlyingBlue
Posts: 2,418
I was about to post the same thing. In non-Covid times, I used to spend something like 80-100 nights in hotels/year and encountered bedbugs only once in a B&B in Québec 15 years ago. No need to become obsessed and over-careful with this. It also happens sometimes in J/P in planes. You have reports from time to time here on FT but it remains very rare (it never happened to me in a plane).
Right after, I started checking for bedbugs in hotels... and found them in over 50 % of the rooms I stayed in China.
My conclusion was that, at least there, it's virtually impossible to avoid them. So I don't check for them anymore, but I do quarantine my luggage, and heat or freeze every piece of clothing on arrival. To follow today's lingo, I don't try to "track and trace" anymore, I just sterilize when entering a clean zone.
Never had a problem ever since (and that's good, because my first passengers took 6 months to get rid off. Let's just say the travels Wife Acceptance Factor dropped sharply afterwards).