KLM new onboard upgrade with miles

Old Sep 19, 13, 7:25 am
  #1  
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KLM new onboard upgrade with miles

Available for BC : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q

The crew has the list of passengers upgradable.

Miles required for OW from or to AMS

EUROPE 1
10 000

EUROPE 2
12 500

EUROPE 3
15 000

MOYEN ORIENT / ASIE CENTRALE / RUSSIE CENTRALE
20 000

AMERIQUE NORD / ARUBA / BONAIRE / CURACAO / SURINAME
25 000

AMERIQUE CENTRALE / CARAIBES / HAWAII / BERMUDA
40 000

AFRIQUE 1
30 000

AFRIQUE 2 (AFRIQUE DU SUD + OCEAN INDIEN)
32 000

INDE
30 000

AMERIQUE LATINE 1
40 000

AMERIQUE LATINE 2
40 000

ASIE 1 / RUSSIE DE L'EST
40 000

ASIE 2
40 000
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Old Sep 19, 13, 8:18 am
  #2  
 
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I don't really understand the concept. Compated with AF, KL seem to offer much less award seats (Business long-haul), not even on short-notice, i.e. 2 days out or so. And now they want to upgrade people on board for less the miles?
And who is going to be asked if they wish to upgrade? Passengers in the order of status? Of ticket price? The person who shouts the loudest?
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Old Sep 19, 13, 8:30 am
  #3  
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As discussed here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-f...sight-pil.html
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Old Sep 19, 13, 8:38 am
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Originally Posted by cityflyer369 View Post
And now they want to upgrade people on board for less the miles?
Only for K/H/L/Q ticket holders. For Y holders, they are expected to pay (substantially) more, while B/M/U holders are charged the same.

If the table produced above is correct, then:

Europe 1 2 & 3: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (2.5k), others less.

Middle East: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (5k), others less.

Africa 1 & India: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (7.5k), others less.

Africa 2: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (8k), others less.

North America: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (10k), others less.

Central America, Latin America 1 & 2 and Asia 1 &2: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (16k), others less.
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Old Sep 19, 13, 9:25 am
  #5  
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Only for K/H/L/Q ticket holders. For Y holders, they are expected to pay (substantially) more, while B/M/U holders are charged the same.

If the table produced above is correct, then:

Europe 1 2 & 3: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (2.5k), others less.

Middle East: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (5k), others less.

Africa 1 & India: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (7.5k), others less.

Africa 2: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (8k), others less.

North America: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (10k), others less.

Central America, Latin America 1 & 2 and Asia 1 &2: the price given matches that for B/M/U holders. Y holders pay more (16k), others less.
It is also a general improvement over the past onboard upgrade prices though (which were higher and already 'same amount for all buckets' until 9 September).

Good summary about who wins/loses by waiting to upgrade onboard though, and indeed, having differentiated prices in advance and unique price onboard is bound to create some discrepancies, but I would argue that this is a slight improvement overall on KLM's part. I guess the idea is that Y pax could upgrade in advance while K/H/L/Q ticket holders who are happy to 'chance' it could get the upgrade at the same price as BMU if they are willing to wait till the last minute to say if it is still available.

That said, still some things I'm unsure about here such as how the purser chooses who to approach, whether this would not be best handled at the gate rather than onboard (with the same principle) to avoid passengers moving forward with bags etc and getting strange looks as reported, and so on.
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Old Sep 19, 13, 9:40 am
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A nice way to reward full-fare Y flyers though, isn't it!

"Welcome on board, Mister Y. Full-Fare. I see you have enough miles in your Flying Blue account to upgrade to our World Business Class Cabin. Yes, it would cost you 16,000 miles more than if you had arranged this yourself in advance...you're not interested? Are you sure? Well, never mind. I see I have a Mister U. Cheap-Fare on board who has enough miles for a discounted upgrade. Oh no, I couldn't possibly offer you a discount, Mr. Full-Fare. No, you would have to pay 16,000 miles extra. Enjoy your flight!"
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Old Sep 19, 13, 9:52 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
A nice way to reward full-fare Y flyers though, isn't it!

"Welcome on board, Mister Y. Full-Fare. I see you have enough miles in your Flying Blue account to upgrade to our World Business Class Cabin. Yes, it would cost you 16,000 miles more than if you had arranged this yourself in advance...you're not interested? Are you sure? Well, never mind. I see I have a Mister U. Cheap-Fare on board who has enough miles for a discounted upgrade. Oh no, I couldn't possibly offer you a discount, Mr. Full-Fare. No, you would have to pay 16,000 miles extra. Enjoy your flight!"
I fully understand what you are saying - but in terms of the practicalities, bear in mind that the KLM staff do not see the booking class of the passenger on the ipad (nor could they probably be trusted to understand the ridiculous multi-tier upgrade system that FB has put together, and you could also add that on a connecting flight, pax would be able to upgrade their entire itinerary (at the same price if starting or ending in Europe, and much less than two segment upgrades for all other itineraries) which obviously they cannot do with the onboard upgrade. So the modus operandi once onboard has to be 'same for everyone' regardless of both bucket and itinerary. Of course it would be great if they would consider basing it on the cheapest Y levels but you and I both know what is the AF-KL definition of 'generosity'
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Old Sep 19, 13, 10:19 am
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Yes. But before the purser boards the flight, they have synced their iPad and downloaded all data about the upcoming flight. So if they have the passenger manifest, with Flying Blue details and mileage summaries for all passengers, they probably also know what fare the passenger is travelling in. If not, it would be a very simple tweak to make to the program. And from there, it would be very simple to use the same upgrade tables as "on the ground".

The purser should of course already understand all of this - but there actually would be no need. A well-designed app should be able to handle the extra variables without any difficulty.

I would not expect the issue of whether this is an O&D flight, or whether a connection has already been made or will be made at the destination of the present flight, to come into this at all. An on-board upgrade is for this flight only, and the app therefore doesn't need to know whether you have just connected from a flight, or whether you are connecting to another flight. It's like the upgrade sales offer - they apply only to the immediately upcoming sector only. I think most passengers already realise that if they get the upgrade offer at OLCI it applies only for one sector. They may, of course, get another offer - either OLCI or onboard - for any subsequent sector - but there can be no expectation that one upgrade covers any other sectors on the same day, even if the mileage amount, if arranged in advance, would have covered such upgrades.

But if they want to use a single table, then I would have suggested using the Y table. They're already apparently willing to double-reward K/H/L/Q class fliers - previously at least some of these classes were not upgradeable, and now, on board, upgradeable at a discount. Why penalise Y fliers (although, by discounting the ugprades for B and U as well by using the "Y" table, they effectively are discriminating against Y fliers in that everyone else on an upgradeable fare gets a discount!!!)

EDIT: Actually, upgrades are priced per sector, surely? The only time I've upgraded on FB I was only interested in the long-haul sectors - though whether or not that means I overlooked possibly getting the feeder flights upgraded for the same amount, or whether there was no availability, or whether neither I nor the agent thought about that - I don't know. I would expect that, in some cases anyway, availability may not be open on the feeder as well as the long haul, and to be honest, anyone with a brain would only care about getting the upgrade ont he long-haul. Not getting it on the feeder flight should not be a deal-breaker for someone prepared to upgrade using miles. Though maybe there are some sticklers who would insist on getting the fullest bang for their buck. They can just turn down the on-board offer then.

2ND EDIT: From looking again at the video (large screengrab here), the EPIL knows if you are connecting, but the classes are only shown as on the boarding pass - the generic "M" for economy. That could be changed, though.

It's also interesting to note that the purser can re-seat someone - even in a higher cabin. I wonder what one must do to be so favoured? Or maybe this has to be done for each passenger that has accepted the MILUP (the example in the video shows "MILUP" after the lucky lady's name who gets moved to seat 1E).

Last edited by irishguy28; Sep 19, 13 at 10:56 am
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Old Sep 27, 13, 1:26 am
  #9  
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This just seem so wrong to me in every single possible way...

Btw, no one is going to use their sour earned miles for an upgrade when already on board:

1) Most likely these people have saved and saved miles for years and are not going to burn them on "half" the experience - meaning missing out on lounges, fast tracks and all the extra frills that comes with a C/J ticket. Frequent flyers know the value of the miles and knows better...

2) C/J is going to be filled up with friends and family anyway so no spare seats.

Maybe KLM is hoping that PAX that were looking forward to maybe getting a free UG at the gate will buy the UG on bord.

Guess what KLM, just as your super huge success with EC on European flights this will eventually back fire and just another stupid idea to be binned, but it might be too late then...

By all means don't listen to your real frequent flyers...

I'm glad I left circus KLM once and for all
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Old Sep 27, 13, 3:02 am
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Originally Posted by Cupart View Post
This just seem so wrong to me in every single possible way...

Btw, no one is going to use their sour earned miles for an upgrade when already on board:

1) Most likely these people have saved and saved miles for years and are not going to burn them on "half" the experience - meaning missing out on lounges, fast tracks and all the extra frills that comes with a C/J ticket. Frequent flyers know the value of the miles and knows better...

2) C/J is going to be filled up with friends and family anyway so no spare seats.

Maybe KLM is hoping that PAX that were looking forward to maybe getting a free UG at the gate will buy the UG on bord.

Guess what KLM, just as your super huge success with EC on European flights this will eventually back fire and just another stupid idea to be binned, but it might be too late then...

By all means don't listen to your real frequent flyers...

I'm glad I left circus KLM once and for all
I have to say that the 25k for a SFO - AMS is not all that bad an upgrade! If you already fast track, lounge by status then this is great way to have an upgrade for an affordable price I would say!

If you have a Q ticket and then upgrade it much better, then spending thee 62,5k or even 90k ticket in advance. If you consider that you get about 5k back in miles you get for the Q fare ticket it's a nice deal to me. It's just a little of a gamble, because you could and up in Y all flight, if all C seats are full!
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Old Oct 4, 13, 4:17 am
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Originally Posted by Cupart View Post
This just seem so wrong to me in every single possible way...

2) C/J is going to be filled up with friends and family anyway so no spare seats.
I've recently seen (On KL) that empty seat in C were first awarded to UG full paying pax and the then empty left seat in Y were then distributed to familiy of flying staff who were entitled to fly C anyway (Due to 25 years of service, although only when available as usual) after the UG the seats were no longer available was the rational, not unrealistic from a commercial perspective...
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Old Oct 4, 13, 1:13 pm
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Originally Posted by Cupart View Post
This just seem so wrong to me in every single possible way...Btw, no one is going to use their sour earned miles for an upgrade when already on board
I totally disagree with Cupart, think this is a big improvement for my type of frequent flyer!!! First of all, many tickets in Y do not qualify for upgrades and when they do but bought late, upgrades are often no longer available. I always fly in Y with those tickets that do not qualify and mostly fly USA to AMS or CDG, then onward to Africa or Asia.

Now, with this new policy, if there is a seat empty, the senior purser can check with FFers if they are interested in an upgrade with miles. On my most recent flight the senior purser came to me and told me she had seen my status before the flight boarded and had hoped to offer me such an upgrade with miles, but unfortunately C was totally full.

Yes, I am a flyer who knows the value of my miles and look forward to be able to use them again for upgrades on board, especially on those trips of 20 hours or longer after a busy work week. to KLM!!
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