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Co-branded American Express cards: France and the Netherlands

Old Nov 4, 2013, 2:57 pm
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Between 1 September 2013 and 31 March 2018 the co-branded Gold & Platinum Flying Blue American Express cards also gave you Level Miles for purchases at AF/KL.

The Gold card will give you 1.5 Level Miles & Award Miles for AF/KL purchases; the Platinum card will give you 2 Level Miles & Award miles for AF/KL purchases.

As of 31 March 2018 the Flying Blue American Express co-cards give the main cardholder additional XP's when reaching the membership anniversary:
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Co-branded American Express cards: France and the Netherlands

Old May 8, 2020, 4:24 am
  #676  
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About the need to pay your trip with Amex to benefit from the insurances, what will happen with the vouchers emitted by airlines ? Let's take the following example :
- in january 2020, you buy a ticket with AFKL CDG-JFK for travel in may 20. This ticket is paid with AFKLFB Amex
- this flight is cancelled by the airline and the customer has accepted a voucher
- a few months later, you buy a new ticket with AFKL for CDG-DXB for travel end 2020 and you pay using the voucher.

Is the DXB ticket still considered paid with Amex, so can you benefit from the insurances ?
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Old May 8, 2020, 10:02 am
  #677  
 
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
About the need to pay your trip with Amex to benefit from the insurances, what will happen with the vouchers emitted by airlines ? Let's take the following example :
- in january 2020, you buy a ticket with AFKL CDG-JFK for travel in may 20. This ticket is paid with AFKLFB Amex
- this flight is cancelled by the airline and the customer has accepted a voucher
- a few months later, you buy a new ticket with AFKL for CDG-DXB for travel end 2020 and you pay using the voucher.

Is the DXB ticket still considered paid with Amex, so can you benefit from the insurances ?
An interesting question that I too was wondering.

Logic would imply that if your original ticket was paid with Amex and then it was converted into a voucher, then used to pay for a ticket Amex has already made its commission on the ticket and should honor it as such... but that's a good question to get from Axa in writing....

I just issued a ticket a few days ago with a voucher but I deliberately chose a voucher with an inferior value.... the residual amount charged to my Amex was 19... just in case....
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Old May 8, 2020, 10:09 am
  #678  
 
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Originally Posted by carnarvon
Regarding medical coverage, was told by Amex France and then Axa, that only part of the trip costs need to be paid with Amex so that we are covered. It can be car hire or hotel . Does not need to be the plane ticket.

It just occurs to me that I don't know what happens in case I have an issue before checking in or picking up the car, meaning no payment yet (in case the ticket was not paid with Amex)...

p.s. Reading the T@C again, I notice that they do not mention car hire. Only ticket (obviously) or accommodation.
That's correct, in re-re-reading the T&C it's not necessary... and not care hire... this is the kind of stuff that I was talking about... incorrect information depending on who you talk to.

This statement basically says you just have to pay your ticket or some of your lodging...

Pour bnficier de cette garantie, vous devez avoir pay tout ou partie de votre Voyage avec votre carte AIR FRANCE KLM-AMERICAN EXPRESS PLATINUM ou des Miles. C’est dire: - Soit, le trajet arien, ferroviaire ou maritime jusqu’ votre lieu de sjour hors de Votre Pays de Rsidence.- Soit tout ou partie de votre hbergement en dehors de Votre Pays de Rsidence.

Page 12 : https://www.americanexpress.com/cont...LATINUM_CG.pdf
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Old May 9, 2020, 2:57 am
  #679  
 
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Originally Posted by bostontraveler
That's correct, in re-re-reading the T&C it's not necessary... and not care hire... this is the kind of stuff that I was talking about... incorrect information depending on who you talk to. This statement basically says you just have to pay your ticket or some of your lodging...(..)f
Meaning that if you did not pay for the ticket with Amex, you must think of paying at least on night in advance, because if you have a problem before you even check-in, then you have not paid for you accommodative yet and according to this limitation, are not covered. This is how I understand it.
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Old May 14, 2020, 8:45 am
  #680  
 
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
About the need to pay your trip with Amex to benefit from the insurances, what will happen with the vouchers emitted by airlines ? Let's take the following example :
- in january 2020, you buy a ticket with AFKL CDG-JFK for travel in may 20. This ticket is paid with AFKLFB Amex
- this flight is cancelled by the airline and the customer has accepted a voucher
- a few months later, you buy a new ticket with AFKL for CDG-DXB for travel end 2020 and you pay using the voucher.

Is the DXB ticket still considered paid with Amex, so can you benefit from the insurances ?
Those were the exact questions I have been wondering for more than a month now and also the reason I insisted towards AF/KLM to get a cash refund rather than a voucher. Amex T&C are clear : You need to fully pay your ticket with the Amex or FB miles (or MR points depending on the card). If you don't fully pay your ticket with the credt card, then the insurances will NOT trigger. Amex (actually AXA) confirmed this to me on the phone. Now if you make a new booking with your voucher, it will appear in the eticket receipt as a mean of payment and the insurance will deny any claim, even if the issued voucher was generated following a cancelled flight paid via Amex. Same goes for the paperplane gift cards sold on the AF website which sometimes come with a bonus and which you can pay with an Amex.
I even proposed AF/KLM to pay for a full year of travel insurance equivalement to an Amex Gold (not as good as platinum) product with AXA for instance. This costed 280 Euros per passenger for the year, and I even offered them the possibility to give me those 280 Euros as... an AF/KLM voucher ! By doing so, I would accept to withdraw my rights of asking a full cash refund for the multiple amex bookings with cancelled flights. They indeed refused. And therefore, I cancelled my Amex Platinum card because the insurances will basically be useless as I would anyway pay for my future flights with a voucher making the Amex insurance void.
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Old May 14, 2020, 8:54 am
  #681  
 
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Regarding Amex France insurances and the need to FULLY pay for the flight :
(Everytime the extracts below are at the beginning of the section 2 regarding general conditions of insurances and assistances)

Amex Platinum : https://www.americanexpress.com/cont...LATINUM_CG.pdf
Pour bnficier des garanties du prsent contrat, Vous devez avoir rgl intgralement Vos billets ainsi que tout autre achat avec Votre Carte Platinum American Express, sauf pour la mise en œuvre des prestations Frais de recherche et de secours et Frais mdicaux et chirurgicaux suite un Accident pendant la pratique d’un sport d’hiver de la garantie Neige et Montagne .

Amex Gold : https://www.americanexpress.com/cont...NS_GOLD_CG.pdf
Pour bnficier des garanties du prsent contrat, Vous devez avoir rgl intgralement Vos billets ainsi que tout autre achat avec Votre Gold Card American Express, sauf pour la mise en œuvre des prestations Frais de recherche et de secours et Frais mdicaux et chirurgicaux suite un Accident pendant la pratique d’un sport d’hiver , de la garantie Neige et Montagne et de la garantie Assistance aux Voyages .

Amex AF/KLM Platinum : https://www.americanexpress.com/cont...LATINUM_CG.pdf
Pour bnficier des garanties du prsent contrat, Vous devez avoir rgl intgralement Vos billets ainsi que tout autre achat avec VotreCarte AIR FRANCE KLM – AMERICAN EXPRESS PLATINUM ou bien avoir bnfici d’un Billet Prime Flying Blue, sauf pour la mise en œuvre des prestations Frais de recherche et de secours et Frais mdicaux et chirurgicaux suite un Accident pendant la pratique d’un sport d’hiver de la garantie Neige et Montagne .

Amex AF/KLM Gold : https://www.americanexpress.com/cont..._AFGOLD_CG.pdf
Pour bnficier des garanties du prsent contrat, Vous devez avoir rgl intgralement Vos billets ainsi que tout autre achat avec Votre Carte AIR FRANCE KLMAMERICAN EXPRESS GOLD, sauf pour la mise en œuvre des prestations Frais de recherche et de secours et Frais mdicaux et chirurgicaux suite un Accident pendant la pratique d’un sport d’hiver de la garantie Neige et Montagne et de la garantie Assistance aux Voyages .

Now, maybe in front of a court, paying a trip with a voucher which was generated with a cancelled AF/KLM booking paid with an Amex could be seen as the whole thing covered as if it was paid by Amex. But unless you want to fight in court, I would consider the T&C as the ones to read carefully...
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Old May 14, 2020, 9:19 am
  #682  
 
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Originally Posted by palmanfr
Regarding Amex France insurances and the need to FULLY pay for the flight :
(Everytime the extracts below are at the beginning of the section 2 regarding general conditions of insurances and assistances)

Amex Platinum : https://www.americanexpress.com/cont...LATINUM_CG.pdf
Pour bnficier des garanties du prsent contrat, Vous devez avoir rgl intgralement Vos billets ainsi que tout autre achat avec Votre Carte Platinum American Express, sauf pour la mise en uvre des prestations Frais de recherche et de secours et Frais mdicaux et chirurgicaux suite un Accident pendant la pratique dun sport dhiver de la garantie Neige et Montagne .

Amex Gold : https://www.americanexpress.com/cont...NS_GOLD_CG.pdf
Pour bnficier des garanties du prsent contrat, Vous devez avoir rgl intgralement Vos billets ainsi que tout autre achat avec Votre Gold Card American Express, sauf pour la mise en uvre des prestations Frais de recherche et de secours et Frais mdicaux et chirurgicaux suite un Accident pendant la pratique dun sport dhiver , de la garantie Neige et Montagne et de la garantie Assistance aux Voyages .

Amex AF/KLM Platinum : https://www.americanexpress.com/cont...LATINUM_CG.pdf
Pour bnficier des garanties du prsent contrat, Vous devez avoir rgl intgralement Vos billets ainsi que tout autre achat avec VotreCarte AIR FRANCE KLM AMERICAN EXPRESS PLATINUM ou bien avoir bnfici dun Billet Prime Flying Blue, sauf pour la mise en uvre des prestations Frais de recherche et de secours et Frais mdicaux et chirurgicaux suite un Accident pendant la pratique dun sport dhiver de la garantie Neige et Montagne .


Amex AF/KLM Gold : https://www.americanexpress.com/cont..._AFGOLD_CG.pdf
Pour bnficier des garanties du prsent contrat, Vous devez avoir rgl intgralement Vos billets ainsi que tout autre achat avec Votre Carte AIR FRANCE KLMAMERICAN EXPRESS GOLD, sauf pour la mise en uvre des prestations Frais de recherche et de secours et Frais mdicaux et chirurgicaux suite un Accident pendant la pratique dun sport dhiver de la garantie Neige et Montagne et de la garantie Assistance aux Voyages .

Now, maybe in front of a court, paying a trip with a voucher which was generated with a cancelled AF/KLM booking paid with an Amex could be seen as the whole thing covered as if it was paid by Amex. But unless you want to fight in court, I would consider the T&C as the ones to read carefully...

I agree. Logically it should follow that the ticket was paid with an American Express card. My argument to them would be the following-

Ticket 1 was paid entirely with an American Express card.
Ticket 1 was then converted to a voucher which was used to pay for ticket 2

In essence it is a reissuance.

Something else to note---"bien avoir bnfici dun Billet Prime Flying Blue" I wonder technically if that places a limitation on award tickets from any other airline....

I have had delays on other airlines' award tickets and always been reimbursed but who knows....

I'm going to call and ask for clarification.
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Old May 14, 2020, 9:31 am
  #683  
 
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Originally Posted by bostontraveler
I agree. Logically it should follow that the ticket was paid with an American Express card. My argument to them would be the following-

Ticket 1 was paid entirely with an American Express card.
Ticket 1 was then converted to a voucher which was used to pay for ticket 2

In essence it is a reissuance.

Something else to note---"bien avoir bnfici dun Billet Prime Flying Blue" I wonder technically if that places a limitation on award tickets from any other airline....

I have had delays on other airlines' award tickets and always been reimbursed but who knows....

I'm going to call and ask for clarification.
The problem I see here is that amex or AXA will have no way to see that this ticket was purchased using the Amex as the ticket numbers will be different and the voucher numbers do not match any of the ticket numbers...
I only made an insurance claim once and one of the documents AXA was requesting was a proof that the flight was paid FULLY with the Amex, so they wanted the Amex statement, where the itinerary is usually displayed, together with the passenger name, booking class and ticket number, and also the eticket receipt from the airline highlighting that the entire ticket was paid by CCAX.
So if I had booked a ticket last year with my amex between CDG and JFK for a trip in April 2020 and the airline cancells the ticket, gives a voucher and I use it to rebook a flight CDG-DXB for Dec 2020 and break a leg in Dubai during this stay and need to go to the hospital, AXA could say that they have no records of me booking a flight to Dubai in Dec 2020. And the AF eticket you will send them as a claim will show "Exchange" or "Voucher" or "Avoir" depending on your ticket receipt (I have all 3 versions on the new tickets I have) but not Amex...
That's a catch 22 really

For the Flying blue reward tickets, this applies for the AF/KLM cobranded Amex cards only. For the regular Amex cards; Tickets paid with Membership rewards points are eligible for insurance coverage, but not FB award tickets.
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Old May 14, 2020, 9:48 am
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Originally Posted by palmanfr
The problem I see here is that amex or AXA will have no way to see that this ticket was purchased using the Amex as the ticket numbers will be different and the voucher numbers do not match any of the ticket numbers...
I only made an insurance claim once and one of the documents AXA was requesting was a proof that the flight was paid FULLY with the Amex, so they wanted the Amex statement, where the itinerary is usually displayed, together with the passenger name, booking class and ticket number, and also the eticket receipt from the airline highlighting that the entire ticket was paid by CCAX.
So if I had booked a ticket last year with my amex between CDG and JFK for a trip in April 2020 and the airline cancells the ticket, gives a voucher and I use it to rebook a flight CDG-DXB for Dec 2020 and break a leg in Dubai during this stay and need to go to the hospital, AXA could say that they have no records of me booking a flight to Dubai in Dec 2020. And the AF eticket you will send them as a claim will show "Exchange" or "Voucher" or "Avoir" depending on your ticket receipt (I have all 3 versions on the new tickets I have) but not Amex...
That's a catch 22 really

For the Flying blue reward tickets, this applies for the AF/KLM cobranded Amex cards only. For the regular Amex cards; Tickets paid with Membership rewards points are eligible for insurance coverage, but not FB award tickets.
OK so I just called Axa and got this clarification.

Situation 1: Original ticket value paid with Amex was 1000 . Then converted to a voucher for a new ticket. That new ticket is covered. Axa may ask for proof of original payment.
Situation 2: New ticket value is 1500. You pay 1000 with your voucher and 500 with your American Express card. You are covered. If you pay the difference with another card you are not covered.

With respect to mileage awards NO mileage awards are covered because the "l'intgralit" of the ticket was not paid with an American Express but with miles. The only exception is for FB tickets if one has an AF/KL American Express.
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Old May 14, 2020, 9:54 am
  #685  
 
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Originally Posted by bostontraveler
OK so I just called Axa and got this clarification.

Situation 1: Original ticket value paid with Amex was 1000 . Then converted to a voucher for a new ticket. That new ticket is covered. Axa may ask for proof of original payment.
Situation 2: New ticket value is 1500. You pay 1000 with your voucher and 500 with your American Express card. You are covered. If you pay the difference with another card you are not covered.

With respect to mileage awards NO mileage awards are covered because the "l'intgralit" of the ticket was not paid with an American Express but with miles. The only exception is for FB tickets if one has an AF/KL American Express.
Ok, that's very interesting... And different than what I was told about 2 months ago when the drama began. Did you get a written confirmation of this statement by email ?
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Old May 14, 2020, 10:00 am
  #686  
 
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Originally Posted by palmanfr
Ok, that's very interesting... And different than what I was told about 2 months ago when the drama began. Did you get a written confirmation of this statement by email ?
They can never get their story straight...

No, I didn't ask- I didn't realize they can do that.
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Old May 14, 2020, 1:26 pm
  #687  
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Originally Posted by bostontraveler
OK so I just called Axa and got this clarification.

Situation 1: Original ticket value paid with Amex was 1000 . Then converted to a voucher for a new ticket. That new ticket is covered. Axa may ask for proof of original payment.
Situation 2: New ticket value is 1500. You pay 1000 with your voucher and 500 with your American Express card. You are covered. If you pay the difference with another card you are not covered.

With respect to mileage awards NO mileage awards are covered because the "l'intgralit" of the ticket was not paid with an American Express but with miles. The only exception is for FB tickets if one has an AF/KL American Express.
That's very good news and reassuring. Thanks for having checked.
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Old May 14, 2020, 5:51 pm
  #688  
 
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
That's very good news and reassuring. Thanks for having checked.
Thank you for all of your very valuable contributions!
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Old Jun 26, 2020, 12:05 pm
  #689  
 
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No entries since May ??

No entries since May ??

Anybody getting annual fee refunds from AMEX/FB because of the inability to use (Platinum) cards to their full extent?
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Old Jun 26, 2020, 12:17 pm
  #690  
 
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nope....
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