Last edit by: Gajan
Between 1 September 2013 and 31 March 2018 the co-branded Gold & Platinum Flying Blue American Express cards also gave you Level Miles for purchases at AF/KL.
The Gold card will give you 1.5 Level Miles & Award Miles for AF/KL purchases; the Platinum card will give you 2 Level Miles & Award miles for AF/KL purchases.
As of 31 March 2018 the Flying Blue American Express co-cards give the main cardholder additional XP's when reaching the membership anniversary:
The Gold card will give you 1.5 Level Miles & Award Miles for AF/KL purchases; the Platinum card will give you 2 Level Miles & Award miles for AF/KL purchases.
As of 31 March 2018 the Flying Blue American Express co-cards give the main cardholder additional XP's when reaching the membership anniversary:
- Silver: 15XP;
- Gold: 30 XP
- Platinum: 60 XP
Co-branded American Express cards: France and the Netherlands
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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At card issuer level, OTOH, you do have competition to secure a contract with a given scheme. I would suspect that there is much jockeying at the moment between MBNA and Amex to be the one selected by BA for a BAEC miles earning card when the current Amex contract runs out.
Incidentally, BA also has a very famous credit card deal in the US with Chase (again, ridiculously generous advantages usually) and I don't think FB has a similar card in the US either.
Finally, just to echo your point on how odd it is that FB don't bother to offer a credit card in the UK market: as you mention, so many airlines do - apart from FB's two main competitors (BAEC and LHMM), in fact, if I'm not wrong, even Ryanair has or had a UK credit card!
#17
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
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#18
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Very interesting comments. They all make sense.
The banking habits in France are indeed different. I remember when Oney introduced their card (not linked to a specific bank). They had to give a rebate to customers rather than some freebies like air miles and they did not seem to be very successful. The BA card (which I was a visa, not Amex) was not successful either. I think that French are very traditional in their banking habits from Caisse d'Epargne to major banks. There not many different banks either.
In HK, where there is huge competition among credit card, people use numerous cards. And many cards are co-branded with Asia miles. And several airlines have co-branded credit card.
The banking habits in France are indeed different. I remember when Oney introduced their card (not linked to a specific bank). They had to give a rebate to customers rather than some freebies like air miles and they did not seem to be very successful. The BA card (which I was a visa, not Amex) was not successful either. I think that French are very traditional in their banking habits from Caisse d'Epargne to major banks. There not many different banks either.
In HK, where there is huge competition among credit card, people use numerous cards. And many cards are co-branded with Asia miles. And several airlines have co-branded credit card.
#19
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My guess is (for once ) slightly different from Goldorak's and would have more to do with comparative banking habits. My perception of France is that a majority of people have much fewer credit cards than, say, in the UK or the US, and still tend to get it/them through their primary banking institution (ie where they have their current account). In the UK, it is perfectly usual for someone to, say, have their current account with NatWest but get an RBS mastercard and an MBNA visa card etc. This means that there is a strong market for 'niche' cards which have ties with airlines, supermarkets, or even sportsclubs. My feeling is that this is still not very usual in France because typically, someone who has their current account at LCL or the SG will tend to get their credit card from LCL or the SG as well. Amex is the key exception, so probably the only 'logical' target for a special co-branded credit card, but as said, it is not widely accepted. All this is, however, totally unscientific an interpretation on my part and just a hunch.
And your explanation is a good one. I think that these co-branded CC (with supermarkets, etc) were even not allowed in France until 2 or 3 years ago. Please do not ask me why or why the AF Amex was an exception
#20
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This is getting OT, but I think that it is a likely development. With DL moving partly away from AFKL and several partners recently added to ST, it would seem logical that AFKL follow the same route as DL and UA.
#21
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
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#22
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there is no room for competition in France, the market is owned by card issuers (Visa and Mastercard)
all banks have to work with one of them or with both
and everyone has to use a credit card
therefore, there is absolutely no point for any company to offer a cobranded card
waiving annual card fees is the only promotion that is offered, what a shame...
all banks have to work with one of them or with both
and everyone has to use a credit card
therefore, there is absolutely no point for any company to offer a cobranded card
waiving annual card fees is the only promotion that is offered, what a shame...
#23
Moderator: Aegean Miles+Bonus
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So for the Gold card we will pay 30 euro a year extra, just for the level miles?
For people who qualify on segments it is now even easier to either step down to Silver or the plain Green Amex..
For people who qualify on segments it is now even easier to either step down to Silver or the plain Green Amex..
#24
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Finally it will be interesting to see if AA follow UA and DL or not. After all, AA literally invented frequent flyer programmes and if they don't follow suite, I wonder if it will have an impact on people in non-hub cities (or in joint-hub cities like Chicago) switching allegiance. Interestingly, it wouldn't only be people with low spend: risk aversion is a key aspect of human behaviour and some people who easily spend $15-20K/year may well feel threatened by the $10k threshold imposed by UA even if they will undoubtedly make it over and again so some of them may well be up for grabs too.
#25
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What makes the UK environment more significantly different, I suspect, is that many French cards are not credit cards but debit cards, where the potential for revenue from card users (as opposed to merchants) is virtually nil (other than a fixed card fee). Also, interest rates are much more controlled in France than in the UK. The rates of interest charged on quite a few credit cards in the UK would, I believe, be illegal in France as above the "taux d'usure".
It is therefore a much less lucrative market than in the UK, which is another factor for less competition.
#26
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Also, interest rates are much more controlled in France than in the UK. The rates of interest charged on quite a few credit cards in the UK would, I believe, be illegal in France as above the "taux d'usure".
It is therefore a much less lucrative market than in the UK, which is another factor for less competition.
It is therefore a much less lucrative market than in the UK, which is another factor for less competition.
#27
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But so is it elsewhere: most cards in the UK are Visa or Mastercard (with some non-Amex Amex, however).
What makes the UK environment more significantly different, I suspect, is that many French cards are not credit cards but debit cards, where the potential for revenue from card users (as opposed to merchants) is virtually nil (other than a fixed card fee). Also, interest rates are much more controlled in France than in the UK. The rates of interest charged on quite a few credit cards in the UK would, I believe, be illegal in France as above the "taux d'usure".
It is therefore a much less lucrative market than in the UK, which is another factor for less competition.
What makes the UK environment more significantly different, I suspect, is that many French cards are not credit cards but debit cards, where the potential for revenue from card users (as opposed to merchants) is virtually nil (other than a fixed card fee). Also, interest rates are much more controlled in France than in the UK. The rates of interest charged on quite a few credit cards in the UK would, I believe, be illegal in France as above the "taux d'usure".
It is therefore a much less lucrative market than in the UK, which is another factor for less competition.
that's correct, i should have mentioned it
cards in France are debit cards
#28
Join Date: Apr 2005
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However, there is a diverse and rich landscape of other store-branded cards, issued by insititutions like Cofinoga and Sofinco. France is one of the countries with the highest penetration of store cards. They have a credit card functions with a function (and level of interests) akin to the Anglo-Saxon cards, they have a loyalty program attached, and usually a network of non-competing commercial partners (for instance there is one card for Galeries Lafayette and a hoast of partners, and another one for Printemps and a hoast of partners). Points could be collected and used with all partners, for products, services, flowers, dinners, free car wash, whatever. If I remember correctly some of the Cofinoga-issued cards have/had (?) a partnership with Air France. The Cofinoga people told me that 80% of all "points" were used not for flowers or TV sets but for AF flights between Paris and Nice. That was 12 years ago though, so 1) I can talk about it now and 2) not sure this is still the case.
One more point: the French market is actually dominated by VISA, Mastercard is much less important and until some years ago hardly existed. This is because Groupe Carte Bleue, the organisation managing the French Carte Bleue (basically a domestic debit card, something like Switch in the UK) was linked to VISA.
#29
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So France. Bunch of ENA cronies controlling the market. Lobby group fostering its own interests WITH the help of public authorities. <sigh>
#30
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However, there is a diverse and rich landscape of other store-branded cards, issued by insititutions like Cofinoga and Sofinco. France is one of the countries with the highest penetration of store cards. They have a credit card functions with a function (and level of interests) akin to the Anglo-Saxon cards, they have a loyalty program attached, and usually a network of non-competing commercial partners (for instance there is one card for Galeries Lafayette and a hoast of partners, and another one for Printemps and a hoast of partners).
And yes indeed about everything else you mention! And another specificity is that all those French cards, the debit cards, credit cards, store cards, all seem to have a fee which again is a French idiosyncracy, especially considering how little you get out of them (I think you need to pay extra if you want your debit card with "debit differe").