Changes to long-haul awards
Apr 24, 2013, 3:14 pm
#16
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: FB Amex silver / amex green
Posts: 30
As discussed in the past, Flying Blue has been researching the possibility to reduce the long-haul fuel-surcharge.
Starting June 2013 there will be changes implemented:
Information can be found here: http://www.flyingblue.com/news/1397/...l-flights.html
Flying Blue is interested to hear your initial thoughts.
JOUY31 & Gajan
Starting June 2013 there will be changes implemented:
- Increase of the number of upgradeable booking classes to 8 (amount of miles required is fare dependent);
- Miles required for economy remains at current rate (for base level);
- Miles required for business increases slightly;
- Just as for short-haul there are a number of tiers available at different rates, resulting in the fact that there are more fare classes available (rather than booking flex tickets).
Information can be found here: http://www.flyingblue.com/news/1397/...l-flights.html
Flying Blue is interested to hear your initial thoughts.
JOUY31 & Gajan
Apr 24, 2013, 3:29 pm
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
When we were asked to provide examples from other European FFPs and their burning rates, I thought we had done a good job in showing them just how poorly Flying Blue compared.
Apparently we failed.
Apparently we failed.
Apr 24, 2013, 4:22 pm
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
Also, this information says it is for AF and KL. What about KQ? Is their FB award structure not changing? I don't see any news on the KQ site.
Apr 24, 2013, 4:26 pm
#19
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,848
Yes, I and others certainly made it very clear that they should look at what BA has done. It's nice to see a reduction in surcharges, but the big increase in miles hurts. And are they really doing away with the O bucket? I agree that *could* be a severe penalty to elites. As far as I can tell there isn't any benefit to being elite other than earning a few more miles on flights. What other airline doesn't give preference with award booking to its elites?
Also, this information says it is for AF and KL. What about KQ? Is their FB award structure not changing? I don't see any news on the KQ site.
Also, this information says it is for AF and KL. What about KQ? Is their FB award structure not changing? I don't see any news on the KQ site.
Don't know why people are still Flying Blue members after the downhill slide of the last couple years. Gluttons for punishment I guess.
Apr 24, 2013, 11:58 pm
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,922
At that stage, I'm not sure we can say that. What is sure is that there will be no more Elite awards (for 115%), but will there still be some extra-inventory for elites at the classic award level ?
Apr 25, 2013, 12:09 am
#23
Join Date: Apr 2013
Programs: FB Platinum for Life, Etihad Gold, AA 1m Miles
Posts: 18
Please note, however, that the number of Award Miles required for intercontinental award tickets will be increased at the same time. This increase applies only to Premium Economy Class, Business Class, First Class and Flex Awards.
They think their premium class customers are a soft touch? I personnaly will complete my PFL this year then move on. They treat us like idiots. 35 KLM business class passengers on a 777 are roughly the price of 140 economy. Wake up AF KLM.
They think their premium class customers are a soft touch? I personnaly will complete my PFL this year then move on. They treat us like idiots. 35 KLM business class passengers on a 777 are roughly the price of 140 economy. Wake up AF KLM.
Apr 25, 2013, 12:37 am
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,556
I am glad that I have stopped flying AF, unless necessary (which still happens occasionally).
For HKG-CDG one way I will need a minimum of 100K in a bad J and 260K in a poor F. And that is only for classic awards. I wonder how much will be required for Flex F award
With BAEC who lowered the spend rates, I do the same for 60K on CX wonderful J and 90K on CX wonderful F suite. Come on, 100K for AF angled seat and 90K or CX F suite, is that a joke?
And I find the earn rate more attractive on BAEC.
I feel sorry for the AF aficionados. I do not mind the usual misleading AF marketing blabla. But they clearly decided that they will cut down on FB. That will induce an instantaneous gain on their balance sheet (the value of the miles liability will go down by 25% or more) and it shows that they believe that a FFP is of little importance in the travel pattern of frequent flyers. Let the market decide.
For HKG-CDG one way I will need a minimum of 100K in a bad J and 260K in a poor F. And that is only for classic awards. I wonder how much will be required for Flex F award
With BAEC who lowered the spend rates, I do the same for 60K on CX wonderful J and 90K on CX wonderful F suite. Come on, 100K for AF angled seat and 90K or CX F suite, is that a joke?
And I find the earn rate more attractive on BAEC.
I feel sorry for the AF aficionados. I do not mind the usual misleading AF marketing blabla. But they clearly decided that they will cut down on FB. That will induce an instantaneous gain on their balance sheet (the value of the miles liability will go down by 25% or more) and it shows that they believe that a FFP is of little importance in the travel pattern of frequent flyers. Let the market decide.
Last edited by brunos; Apr 25, 2013 at 12:49 am
Apr 25, 2013, 12:52 am
#26
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: CDG/BVA
Programs: AFKL Plat STE+ (LT), OZ Diam+ *G (LT), QF Gold OWS (LTG 83%)
Posts: 324
Well we have to put it into perspective : new upcoming J seats on both KL AF resulting in lower density means higher per seat costs. Those need to be recouped in the award price structure.
They can't change the grid every morning.
They can't change the grid every morning.
Apr 25, 2013, 1:01 am
#27
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: GLA
Programs: AF/KL FB Plat 4L, VA Vel Silver, BA EC, LH M&M
Posts: 1,825
I agree with orbitmic's 6 points and wonder why they don't have more competent people at FB.
Also it would be nice if they could provide full information, i.e. booking classes used and corresponding miles levels and detailed new upgrade rules.
Also it would be nice if they could provide full information, i.e. booking classes used and corresponding miles levels and detailed new upgrade rules.
Apr 25, 2013, 1:07 am
#28
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,556
Indeed, they cannot change the grid every morning, so why change it today when we know that the new seats will not be available on AF for another year at the very least. And probably stuck with NEV4 for the next several years.
Apr 25, 2013, 1:17 am
#29
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: CDG/BVA
Programs: AFKL Plat STE+ (LT), OZ Diam+ *G (LT), QF Gold OWS (LTG 83%)
Posts: 324
In any case, we are in for a loss in value during the transition (and that will be longer on AF than KL, and even longer on A380 that are supposed to stay with NEV4 or worse).
So either book now, low mileage-low J seat awards, or wait for having better seats at higher mileage (and incurring the risk in the meantime of yet another bad surprise, FB specialty).
Last edited by mogoy; Apr 25, 2013 at 1:26 am
Apr 25, 2013, 1:54 am
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
I thought that F were flex awards and that classic-type F awards had disappeared several years ago. Have I misunderstood how F awards work (not that it matters that much to me as, at that level, the odds of my redeeming in F are on a par with my dancing naked on the Place de la Concorde).