New levels of incompetence
May 2, 2010, 9:09 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Kfar Saba, Israel
Posts: 4,172
New levels of incompetence
I'm trying to burn down the last miles on my FB account on a complex award ticket with an itinerary like:
Outbound: TLV - JFK - direct on DL.
Inbound: JFK - LHR - on DL. Stopover for 2 days in London. LHR-AMS-TLV on KL.
I called the FB call center on Thursday and tried to reserve it, they booked me on the DL flights but said that the KL flight I wanted was not available (though it was available on the website). I booked the flights as they were available ( a day before on the return from London) and kept it on hold for 24 hours. The agent on the phone calculated the taxes to be something around 184 Euros per person - something I can live with.
On Friday morning I checked both KLM and Delta websites and found that the return flight from LHR was available on the day I needed. I made a 2nd call to the FB call center - the lady on the other side said the flight was available but after changing the flight she recalculated the taxes and it came up as more than 500 Euros per person(!!!). Every attempt to test the amount got rejected and she did not want to break it for me to realize what amount gets it so high. I got frustrated with her, asked her to keep it on hold and hung up.
3 minutes later I called again (3rd call now). I explained the situation to the lady and she put me on hold for like 5 minutes. She came back to say that my route is illegal and I cannot fly to LHR via JFK ... I explained the route to her and was put back on hold for another 10 minutes. This time she said she corrected it and now the taxes are back at 184 Euros. This is the point where I made a mistake - as the call(s) took much longer than I expected and I had to leave home, and as I did not have my wallet with me, I asked her to keep it on hold and I'll call later to pay and ticket it.
A few hours later I called (4th call by now) just to pay and close the deal. I was immediately put on hold for 10 minutes. the agent came back to me to say that the route was illegal. She somehow decided that my route is TLV-TLV and that I cannot make 2 stops along the way...
Every try by me to explain to her that 3 FB agents made this booking and approved it went nowhere. She insisted she was right and I was wrong. I asked to talk to a supervisor and was refused. She said something like "I'm the only one you can talk to and if you don't like it you can write a complain letter". I quoted her the FB rulebook and still had no one to talk to. After almost 90 minutes of the dumbest conversation I have ever had I just asked her to keep it on hold and hung up.
I have to say that I'm lucky there is an 800 number that connects Israel and the FB call center in France for free. Otherwise, these calls would have cost more than the flight itself ...
Now, I decided I had enough with the French center and called Ontario (this time on my own expense). At first I got the illegal route remark but it took 20 seconds to explain and another 5 minutes for the guy to calculate the taxes to the right amount (equivalent of 184 Euros in CAD). He took my CC number and even assigned seats for me on the DL flights and ordered special meals.
I hung up knowing this saga is over ... or not ...
Today, 2 days later, the itinerary has not been ticketed yet and the CC was not charged. I called KLM in Israel and they looked the reservation - they said it has a remark that it is in "manual debit" and I have to call FB tomorrow (they are all closed on Sunday) to handle this. Now, who should I call - France or Canada?
Outbound: TLV - JFK - direct on DL.
Inbound: JFK - LHR - on DL. Stopover for 2 days in London. LHR-AMS-TLV on KL.
I called the FB call center on Thursday and tried to reserve it, they booked me on the DL flights but said that the KL flight I wanted was not available (though it was available on the website). I booked the flights as they were available ( a day before on the return from London) and kept it on hold for 24 hours. The agent on the phone calculated the taxes to be something around 184 Euros per person - something I can live with.
On Friday morning I checked both KLM and Delta websites and found that the return flight from LHR was available on the day I needed. I made a 2nd call to the FB call center - the lady on the other side said the flight was available but after changing the flight she recalculated the taxes and it came up as more than 500 Euros per person(!!!). Every attempt to test the amount got rejected and she did not want to break it for me to realize what amount gets it so high. I got frustrated with her, asked her to keep it on hold and hung up.
3 minutes later I called again (3rd call now). I explained the situation to the lady and she put me on hold for like 5 minutes. She came back to say that my route is illegal and I cannot fly to LHR via JFK ... I explained the route to her and was put back on hold for another 10 minutes. This time she said she corrected it and now the taxes are back at 184 Euros. This is the point where I made a mistake - as the call(s) took much longer than I expected and I had to leave home, and as I did not have my wallet with me, I asked her to keep it on hold and I'll call later to pay and ticket it.
A few hours later I called (4th call by now) just to pay and close the deal. I was immediately put on hold for 10 minutes. the agent came back to me to say that the route was illegal. She somehow decided that my route is TLV-TLV and that I cannot make 2 stops along the way...
Every try by me to explain to her that 3 FB agents made this booking and approved it went nowhere. She insisted she was right and I was wrong. I asked to talk to a supervisor and was refused. She said something like "I'm the only one you can talk to and if you don't like it you can write a complain letter". I quoted her the FB rulebook and still had no one to talk to. After almost 90 minutes of the dumbest conversation I have ever had I just asked her to keep it on hold and hung up.
I have to say that I'm lucky there is an 800 number that connects Israel and the FB call center in France for free. Otherwise, these calls would have cost more than the flight itself ...
Now, I decided I had enough with the French center and called Ontario (this time on my own expense). At first I got the illegal route remark but it took 20 seconds to explain and another 5 minutes for the guy to calculate the taxes to the right amount (equivalent of 184 Euros in CAD). He took my CC number and even assigned seats for me on the DL flights and ordered special meals.
I hung up knowing this saga is over ... or not ...
Today, 2 days later, the itinerary has not been ticketed yet and the CC was not charged. I called KLM in Israel and they looked the reservation - they said it has a remark that it is in "manual debit" and I have to call FB tomorrow (they are all closed on Sunday) to handle this. Now, who should I call - France or Canada?
May 2, 2010, 9:39 am
#2
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
I understand that the tickets have not been issued. However, do you have a booking reference you could see on checkmytrip?
Be very careful with these so-called "illegal routes". It happened to me once and after several calls, a FB agent put a note in the PNR informing other FB agents that the ticket should ne be issued because it is illegal and that I has been warned! That despite the routing was purely legal.
So I would recommend to check your PNR if available and see if there is any note.
For the record, my routing was also involving a DL leg.
And finally someone at FB issued the ticket.
Be very careful with these so-called "illegal routes". It happened to me once and after several calls, a FB agent put a note in the PNR informing other FB agents that the ticket should ne be issued because it is illegal and that I has been warned! That despite the routing was purely legal.
So I would recommend to check your PNR if available and see if there is any note.
For the record, my routing was also involving a DL leg.
And finally someone at FB issued the ticket.
May 2, 2010, 2:00 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Kfar Saba, Israel
Posts: 4,172
???
http://www.klm.com/travel/il_en/flyi...d/index.htm#p3
http://www.klm.com/travel/il_en/flyi...d/index.htm#p3
Stopovers
You can make 1 single stopover (stop for more than 24 hours) on your round-trip providing the country of stopover and country of departure on your outbound journey are different.
In Europe, for example, if you fly Amsterdam – Toulouse – Madrid outbound, you can stop over in Toulouse. On the inbound Madrid – Toulouse – Amsterdam flight, it is no longer possible to stop over.
On an international route, for example Atlanta – New York – Paris (outbound) and Paris – New York – Atlanta (inbound), you cannot stop over in New York.
You can make 1 single stopover (stop for more than 24 hours) on your round-trip providing the country of stopover and country of departure on your outbound journey are different.
In Europe, for example, if you fly Amsterdam – Toulouse – Madrid outbound, you can stop over in Toulouse. On the inbound Madrid – Toulouse – Amsterdam flight, it is no longer possible to stop over.
On an international route, for example Atlanta – New York – Paris (outbound) and Paris – New York – Atlanta (inbound), you cannot stop over in New York.
May 2, 2010, 2:05 pm
#6
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; fr-fr) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)
Check http://eitr.amadeusasia.com
That should work.
Originally Posted by apirchik
I have the reference code for AF. This one does not load on checkmytrip.
That should work.
May 3, 2010, 12:15 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Kfar Saba, Israel
Posts: 4,172
May 3, 2010, 1:30 am
#8
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Paris, FRANCE
Programs: VIRTUOSO Travel agent, Amex cent, FB Lifetime Plat.
Posts: 99
It took me once almost one week to get my ticket issued "manually"
Not a complicated route just the fact that one way was business and the other one first... very complicated indeed !!!
Not a complicated route just the fact that one way was business and the other one first... very complicated indeed !!!
May 3, 2010, 10:56 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Kfar Saba, Israel
Posts: 4,172
New development and a happy ending
Spent another 25 minutes on the phone with Ontario last night. The lady on the other side said there is a remark on the reservation about the stopover in New York ...
I explained the route to her and she put me on hold for a few minutes. She came back to me with a new twist - a stopover in Europe is allowed only at AMS, CDG or FCO!!! - I tried explaining her that if I was flying KL, AF or AZ it would be logical I would not be able to fly to LHR via AMS and return to TLV via AMS again but as I was flying DL from JFK and LHR is a valid connection airport and therefore a valid stopover candidate airport. Actually, FCO was my first priority for the connection/stopover but I could not find any availability from JFK to FCO what-so-ever for my dates...
After another 10 minutes of hold came the good news - the supervisor approved to itinerary as a "one time exception" as the itinerary was booked and approved my an FB agent. She said they are adding a note that will be written in my account this "trick" not to be repeated in the future ...
A couple of hours later my CC was charged and the reservation got ticketed at last.
Amazingly, the AF website (as I qouted above) mentions Toulouse as a valid stopover. Toulouse is not AMS, CDG or FCO ...
I explained the route to her and she put me on hold for a few minutes. She came back to me with a new twist - a stopover in Europe is allowed only at AMS, CDG or FCO!!! - I tried explaining her that if I was flying KL, AF or AZ it would be logical I would not be able to fly to LHR via AMS and return to TLV via AMS again but as I was flying DL from JFK and LHR is a valid connection airport and therefore a valid stopover candidate airport. Actually, FCO was my first priority for the connection/stopover but I could not find any availability from JFK to FCO what-so-ever for my dates...
After another 10 minutes of hold came the good news - the supervisor approved to itinerary as a "one time exception" as the itinerary was booked and approved my an FB agent. She said they are adding a note that will be written in my account this "trick" not to be repeated in the future ...
A couple of hours later my CC was charged and the reservation got ticketed at last.
Amazingly, the AF website (as I qouted above) mentions Toulouse as a valid stopover. Toulouse is not AMS, CDG or FCO ...
May 3, 2010, 11:46 pm
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Little dot in Asia
Programs: AA-EP, TK-*G, HL-DM, HY-GLO, MR-LTP
Posts: 25,932
May 4, 2010, 1:16 am
#11
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geneva
Programs: LX SEN, AFKL Platinum, BA Bronze,
Posts: 5,608
Consider yourself lucky, don't consider the FB staff incompetent.
May 4, 2010, 1:37 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Kfar Saba, Israel
Posts: 4,172
I'm flying TLV-JFK-TLV as a round trip or return ticket.
For the matter (and as one of the agents I talked to tried to tell me), if it is a bunch of one-ways, it will be 3 one-ways, not 2 ... but I insist it is a valid route - a round trip with less than 6 segments and 1 stopover. The fact that I mix SkyTeam airlines and take different routes on the outbound and inbound flights doesn't make it an invalid route of 2 one ways!
One last thing, per the T&C you cannot even book one-way awards on DL ...
Last edited by apirchik; May 4, 2010 at 1:54 am
May 4, 2010, 1:44 am
#13
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORY
Programs: Flying Blue Ivory, EasyJet Plus, Club Corsair Gold, Thalys TheCard Platinum, Navigo 1-5
Posts: 1,990
Jun 2, 2010, 1:13 am
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Kfar Saba, Israel
Posts: 4,172
After finishing my trip I wrote a letter of complaint to FB with just about what's written above. This is what I got in reply:
Dear Mr XXXXX,
Thank you very much for your recent query with the Flying Blue Customer Service Centre dated 31 May 2010 regarding the issues in booking your Award.
We are really sorry to hear of the inconvenience encountered with making your Award booking and we apologise. We agree from the comments you have provided that booking your Award should not have been so tedious and should have been a more pleasant experience. We kindly advise you that Flying Blue agents are monitored for quality purposes and we thank you for your feedback.
We can indeed confirm that for an Award booking, you are certainly entitled to one stop over allowed on a round trip, providing the country of stop over is different from the country of the departure. We are glad to hear that you have after all booked your Award, under reference XXXXXX. We trust you have enjoyed your flights.
As a token both of our regret over this matter, to thank you for bring this to our attention and also our appreciation for you continued loyalty to our programme we have added the amount of 1000 Miles to your Flying Blue account.
We hope to have informed you sufficiently. Please do not hesitate to contact Flying Blue should you have any further questions pertaining to this matter. We thank you for your time.
Mr. XXXX, the Flying Blue team strives to offer its members an excellent standard of service and remains at your disposal should you require additional information either by telephone (+ 972) 180 944 1800 (press the option to make a booking), by fax or online at www.airfrance.com or www.klm.com.
We thank you for your continued loyalty to the Flying Blue programme.
Thank you very much for your recent query with the Flying Blue Customer Service Centre dated 31 May 2010 regarding the issues in booking your Award.
We are really sorry to hear of the inconvenience encountered with making your Award booking and we apologise. We agree from the comments you have provided that booking your Award should not have been so tedious and should have been a more pleasant experience. We kindly advise you that Flying Blue agents are monitored for quality purposes and we thank you for your feedback.
We can indeed confirm that for an Award booking, you are certainly entitled to one stop over allowed on a round trip, providing the country of stop over is different from the country of the departure. We are glad to hear that you have after all booked your Award, under reference XXXXXX. We trust you have enjoyed your flights.
As a token both of our regret over this matter, to thank you for bring this to our attention and also our appreciation for you continued loyalty to our programme we have added the amount of 1000 Miles to your Flying Blue account.
We hope to have informed you sufficiently. Please do not hesitate to contact Flying Blue should you have any further questions pertaining to this matter. We thank you for your time.
Mr. XXXX, the Flying Blue team strives to offer its members an excellent standard of service and remains at your disposal should you require additional information either by telephone (+ 972) 180 944 1800 (press the option to make a booking), by fax or online at www.airfrance.com or www.klm.com.
We thank you for your continued loyalty to the Flying Blue programme.
Last edited by JOUY31; Jun 2, 2010 at 3:05 am Reason: name removed