How is Biz Class on AF from JFK to CDG ?

Old Jan 5, 09, 10:04 am
  #1  
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How is Biz Class on AF from JFK to CDG ?

There is a non-stop AF flight on a 777-300 from JFK to CDG I'm considering. How is AF Business class? (I believe they have 3 classes of service). Any seat and row you'd recommend? Are the seats lay flat? I've never flown AF and appreciate your expertise.
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Old Jan 5, 09, 5:13 pm
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AF business seats do not lie completely flat, maybe 160 degrees? I found them comfortable the first couple of times I flew them but lately I haven't been able to get comfy on them. Cabin crew and service varies greatly in my experience, from aloof and non existent to patronising to wonderful. There is good storage around the seat and the amenity pack is lousy.

Food and wine is excellent though try to get as far forward in the cabin as possible as they do run out of some options.

My main complaint as a non sleeper is the IFE. English language movies are limited and if you watch the ones you want on the way out, you need to bring your own entertainment for the return leg.

Overall I prefer Delta business elite as a more luxury product even if the seats don't go back so far.
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Old Jan 6, 09, 11:33 am
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Originally Posted by Shesells View Post
AF business seats do not lie completely flat, maybe 160 degrees? I found them comfortable the first couple of times I flew them but lately I haven't been able to get comfy on them. Cabin crew and service varies greatly in my experience, from aloof and non existent to patronising to wonderful. There is good storage around the seat and the amenity pack is lousy.

Food and wine is excellent though try to get as far forward in the cabin as possible as they do run out of some options.

My main complaint as a non sleeper is the IFE. English language movies are limited and if you watch the ones you want on the way out, you need to bring your own entertainment for the return leg.

Overall I prefer Delta business elite as a more luxury product even if the seats don't go back so far.

I think you have not flown on AF in a long time. The seats are fully lie flat on the 777 and 330, which is what you wold likely fly, although they are not parallel to the floor (angled lie flat). I find them to be excellent for sleeping. I have never had anything but excellent service on-board an AF flight (I flew CDG-JFK-CDG at least 20 times in the past year). The IFE is quite good, particularly on the 330 and the 773 and some of the 772 fitted with the new system, it is fully AVOD and is much much better than what Delta offers. The seat is significantly better than the Delta BizElite seat or the Continental Business First seat which are your other options (actually, really just AF and CO). If you want a lie flat parallel to the floor seat, try OpenSkies going to Orly airport south of Paris.
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Old Jan 6, 09, 12:40 pm
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  • CKI at JFK: efficient, but OLCI or kiosks don't seem to work, confirmed by CKI staff (which makes you wonder why they put kiosks up)
  • Security: normal JFK. Traveling in C, you get to use the fast lane
  • Lounge: very spacious, ample seating opportunities, with a nice view on the tarmac. No free WiFi, drinks and food offering is poor, magazines and paper OK
  • Boarding usually efficient if you travel in C, they make a separate line for C class pax
  • Seats on board: lie flat and large. There are currently two versions of the C class seat, NEV2 and NEV3. I prefer NEV3 as it does have a foot rest, so you don't slip from the slightly angled seat. Storage space is fine.
  • IFE: depends if you have the old or the new version. New version has more choice. In both cases, choice of movies, TV series, games, music. Screen size is comfortably wide. Headseats are okayish, but if you have your own noise-cancelling headphones, bring them
  • Food: terrible!!!! Contrary to what the previous two people wrote food in C on that route is a disgrace, all the more from an airline that portrays itself as an ambassador of French art of living and French cuisine. No choice of appetizers, main dishes are usually just plain bad, you get served cheese on your plate right from the start (for a Frenchman that is equivalent to the check being brought with your appetizer for an American), dessert and bread usually good. IIRC no choice of desert from the trolley for the night flight out of JFK. In any case, if you care for food, don't eat on the plane. It's gastronomic terrorism.
  • Amenity kit: nothing to write home about. Everything you need is in there, but products are nothing special. Nice touch: the shoebag
  • Service: FAs typically very classy, very corteous, many of them also very friendly - but you might just as well get the opposite, the type that makes you feel you are there at their grace. But even then they have an aura of class and always corteous. Not very attentionate, they may pass by your empty glass six times without picking it up. But overall no complaints
  • Air France specialty: if you fly in C, don't be surprised that the empty seats around you suddenly get filled with people from behind the curtain (=Y cabin). Those are the buddies of FAs. New YOrk is one of the worst routes, because everybody seems to know someone who travels to NYC, and then does an "after pushback upgrade".
  • If you have status like Elite or Elite Plus, don't expect any special treatment
  • Arrival in Paris: take your time. The jetty won't be available before at least 10 minutes after the plane's been parked (arrival of planes seems always a big surprise to ground staff in CDG). If you go through immigration in CDG, you'll get to use the Acces No. 1 fast lane. Caution: it is not labelled as "Fast lane" or "Business Class" or anything like that. But just show your C class boarding pass and you can use it.
  • Baggage delivery: usually around 15 mins wait time, sometimes more, seldomly less. Don't expect priority-labelled luggage to arrive first, it just comes... whenever.

I haven't used DL on an intercont flight, so I can't compare.

Hope this is helpful. Otherwise, do a search on this forum, you'll find the good and the bad of flying AF in C. Overall it's okayish. If you go from New York with Paris your final destination, it's a good option. If you only change planes in Paris to travel somewhere else, think about another airline and another transfer airport. Paris is - for good reason - systematically ranked among the world's 10 worst airports (Kabul being No. 1, Baghdad No. 2, just to give you a flavour of the league CDG is playing in).
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Old Jan 6, 09, 4:02 pm
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Great experience in Biz on AF. Very elegant, great seats, nice food, great wines, and great service.
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Old Jan 6, 09, 4:25 pm
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I find Creber post broadly matching my several experiences. JFK-CDG food service is terribly disappointing (supper). CDG-JFK food is better as it is a full lunch service..
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Old Jan 6, 09, 5:08 pm
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I can agree that the food is not the best on this route, but for me it is better than what I have had on Delta, Continental, American and United, at least for the main course....I do like when CO an DL give ice cream as dessert, but the wine on AF is quite nice and the food is fine.

for me the number 1 thing is the seat and ease of travel, and for this AF cannot be beat on this route.
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Old Jan 7, 09, 7:52 am
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Originally Posted by robin.goodman View Post
I think you have not flown on AF in a long time. The seats are fully lie flat on the 777 and 330, which is what you wold likely fly, although they are not parallel to the floor (angled lie flat). I find them to be excellent for sleeping. I have never had anything but excellent service on-board an AF flight (I flew CDG-JFK-CDG at least 20 times in the past year). The IFE is quite good, particularly on the 330 and the 773 and some of the 772 fitted with the new system, it is fully AVOD and is much much better than what Delta offers. The seat is significantly better than the Delta BizElite seat or the Continental Business First seat which are your other options (actually, really just AF and CO). If you want a lie flat parallel to the floor seat, try OpenSkies going to Orly airport south of Paris.

About 8 weeks ago? I did say they don't like fully flat which even you admit, 160 degrees is not flat IMO, it's angled and I don't like it.

AVOD - there were about 12-15 movies to choose from as well as a number of channels. Like I said, when I watched the ones I wanted to on the way out, there were the same options on the way back.

I have found the issue with the crew to be because I'm a 30 year old woman. The service my husband gets is totally different to how I'm treated. Little things like never being offered a digestif, but the men are. My coat not being taken. Also on our return flight from BKK the service was far from good. After the dinner there was no further cabin service. No water (yes I know there's the self service bar) and no clearance of any glasses or snacks for over 5 hours! At breakfast I was given a filthy glass which the FA actually held to the light and then decided it was okay to give to me. I pointed out that it was not clean and she shrugged.

Actually on that flight we landed in CDG and had a bus transfer to the terminal so that was just the icing on the cake. At least there was a separate bus for l'Espace Affaires.

Delta is not as modern or "comfortable" as AF but I still find it to be a more enjoyable experience.

Each to their own I guess.
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Old Jan 7, 09, 9:22 am
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Originally Posted by creber View Post
  • CKI at JFK: efficient, but OLCI or kiosks don't seem to work, confirmed by CKI staff (which makes you wonder why they put kiosks up)
  • Security: normal JFK. Traveling in C, you get to use the fast lane
  • Lounge: very spacious, ample seating opportunities, with a nice view on the tarmac. No free WiFi, drinks and food offering is poor, magazines and paper OK
  • Boarding usually efficient if you travel in C, they make a separate line for C class pax
  • Seats on board: lie flat and large. There are currently two versions of the C class seat, NEV2 and NEV3. I prefer NEV3 as it does have a foot rest, so you don't slip from the slightly angled seat. Storage space is fine.
  • IFE: depends if you have the old or the new version. New version has more choice. In both cases, choice of movies, TV series, games, music. Screen size is comfortably wide. Headseats are okayish, but if you have your own noise-cancelling headphones, bring them
  • Food: terrible!!!! Contrary to what the previous two people wrote food in C on that route is a disgrace, all the more from an airline that portrays itself as an ambassador of French art of living and French cuisine. No choice of appetizers, main dishes are usually just plain bad, you get served cheese on your plate right from the start (for a Frenchman that is equivalent to the check being brought with your appetizer for an American), dessert and bread usually good. IIRC no choice of desert from the trolley for the night flight out of JFK. In any case, if you care for food, don't eat on the plane. It's gastronomic terrorism.
  • Amenity kit: nothing to write home about. Everything you need is in there, but products are nothing special. Nice touch: the shoebag
  • Service: FAs typically very classy, very corteous, many of them also very friendly - but you might just as well get the opposite, the type that makes you feel you are there at their grace. But even then they have an aura of class and always corteous. Not very attentionate, they may pass by your empty glass six times without picking it up. But overall no complaints
  • Air France specialty: if you fly in C, don't be surprised that the empty seats around you suddenly get filled with people from behind the curtain (=Y cabin). Those are the buddies of FAs. New YOrk is one of the worst routes, because everybody seems to know someone who travels to NYC, and then does an "after pushback upgrade".
  • If you have status like Elite or Elite Plus, don't expect any special treatment
  • Arrival in Paris: take your time. The jetty won't be available before at least 10 minutes after the plane's been parked (arrival of planes seems always a big surprise to ground staff in CDG). If you go through immigration in CDG, you'll get to use the Acces No. 1 fast lane. Caution: it is not labelled as "Fast lane" or "Business Class" or anything like that. But just show your C class boarding pass and you can use it.
  • Baggage delivery: usually around 15 mins wait time, sometimes more, seldomly less. Don't expect priority-labelled luggage to arrive first, it just comes... whenever.

I haven't used DL on an intercont flight, so I can't compare.

Hope this is helpful. Otherwise, do a search on this forum, you'll find the good and the bad of flying AF in C. Overall it's okayish. If you go from New York with Paris your final destination, it's a good option. If you only change planes in Paris to travel somewhere else, think about another airline and another transfer airport. Paris is - for good reason - systematically ranked among the world's 10 worst airports (Kabul being No. 1, Baghdad No. 2, just to give you a flavour of the league CDG is playing in).
Originally Posted by Shesells View Post
About 8 weeks ago? I did say they don't like fully flat which even you admit, 160 degrees is not flat IMO, it's angled and I don't like it.

AVOD - there were about 12-15 movies to choose from as well as a number of channels. Like I said, when I watched the ones I wanted to on the way out, there were the same options on the way back.

I have found the issue with the crew to be because I'm a 30 year old woman. The service my husband gets is totally different to how I'm treated. Little things like never being offered a digestif, but the men are. My coat not being taken. Also on our return flight from BKK the service was far from good. After the dinner there was no further cabin service. No water (yes I know there's the self service bar) and no clearance of any glasses or snacks for over 5 hours! At breakfast I was given a filthy glass which the FA actually held to the light and then decided it was okay to give to me. I pointed out that it was not clean and she shrugged.

Actually on that flight we landed in CDG and had a bus transfer to the terminal so that was just the icing on the cake. At least there was a separate bus for l'Espace Affaires.

Delta is not as modern or "comfortable" as AF but I still find it to be a more enjoyable experience.

Each to their own I guess.
I agree 100% that the bus transfers are total garbage. Its the reason why I take swiss for my weekly flights to Zurich. I also do not like the security lines at 2E and 2F during busy times.

I would call the air france seats angled lie flat, and the DL seats cradle seats.
Personally, I prefer CDG to my former home airports of JFK and EWR just because the delays aren't as bad. For transit passengers, this can be terrible. And AF is with no question not the best ground operation in the world, fortunately I have never had a serious problem, but I pity those who have.
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Old Jan 7, 09, 9:50 am
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Creber is right on all counts, particularly concerning catering. It is actually better even on Delta, which shows how low AF has sunk. I would only add that the 21h00 departure AF11 is often a nightmare - absolutely jam packed A340 and in an overheated cabin that feels claustrophobic. As it it a 'late evening flight' there is little in the way of catering - which is a mercy - so plan on a snack in the airport. Also crew seem to like this flight less. Really, L'Avion and Open Skies are ten times better.
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Old May 1, 09, 4:38 pm
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Is there an AF or SkyTeam lounge at JFK with a shower?
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Old May 2, 09, 2:15 am
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Originally Posted by SAT Lawyer View Post
Is there an AF or SkyTeam lounge at JFK with a shower?
Yes, the AF lounge (T1) has showers. (and if you are on DL and C class, the DL business elite lounge in T2/T3 has showers too).
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Old May 3, 09, 9:15 am
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Best biz seats on this flight?

Does anyone have a preference on particular seats on this route? Is the mini cabin really better?

These are open now for my flight:
3E or 4E or 4G

Thanks!
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