Is AF finally paying the price for their unreasonable surcharges?

Old Dec 20, 08, 12:12 pm
  #1  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Gold, Amex Plat
Posts: 24,469
Is AF finally paying the price for their unreasonable surcharges?

This should be PEAK season for AF, but my flight tomorrow is far from full.

BOS-CDG is Y9N9W3J9E9 W3 and E9

did OLCI and it's WIDE open

if I look at the LH flight BOS-FRA it's Y8F2

same thing on Friday when my wife flew BOS-FRA the LH flight was Y0J0F0 (and packed!) whereas AF was selling N,L-class until departure.

AF prices have been consistently $200 more than any other competitor for most of Europe ... are they finally paying the price and seeing less passengers? The weekend before x-mas is supposed to be jampacked, but not this year on AF ...
cfischer is offline  
Old Dec 20, 08, 12:37 pm
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Soon to be LEGT
Posts: 10,928
I really can't understand the argument you're putting forward here.
How can they be selling cheap fares right up to the last minute and at the same time be more expensive than everyone else??
graraps is offline  
Old Dec 20, 08, 12:54 pm
  #3  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Gold, Amex Plat
Posts: 24,469
Originally Posted by graraps View Post
I really can't understand the argument you're putting forward here.
How can they be selling cheap fares right up to the last minute and at the same time be more expensive than everyone else??
meaning low fare classes such as N, L, Q and even award seats while all other carriers are sold out.

The corresponding fares are still very high.
cfischer is offline  
Old Dec 20, 08, 1:11 pm
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Soon to be LEGT
Posts: 10,928
Originally Posted by cfischer View Post
meaning low fare classes such as N, L, Q and even award seats while all other carriers are sold out.

The corresponding fares are still very high.
But is the all-in price for NLQ on AF really cheaper than YBM on LH??
graraps is offline  
Old Dec 20, 08, 1:19 pm
  #5  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Gold, Amex Plat
Posts: 24,469
Originally Posted by graraps View Post
But is the all-in price for NLQ on AF really cheaper than YBM on LH??
well, obviously not ... my point is that LH, DL, AA, BA and so on are apparently able to sell their seats, while AF is NOT.

whenever I checked fares to FRA, AF was always $200-400 more expensive than other major carriers. I decided to book LH for my wife and my ticket is on AF just because it was rebooked from a travel screw-up in April.

This is the first x-mas in the past 5 years where I see BOS-CDG flights going out with empty seats. Pax are turning away due to high fares and labor issues @ AF. We talked to some friends from France and even they are flying LH!
cfischer is offline  
Old Dec 20, 08, 1:27 pm
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Soon to be LEGT
Posts: 10,928
Originally Posted by cfischer View Post
well, obviously not ... my point is that LH, DL, AA, BA and so on are apparently able to sell their seats, while AF is NOT.
So you're back to what I said. Evidently, if the other airlines have managed to sell out even in the expensive booking classes, the reason for AF not selling their cheap ones can be anything but price!
graraps is offline  
Old Dec 20, 08, 2:10 pm
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Gold, Amex Plat
Posts: 24,469
Originally Posted by graraps View Post
So you're back to what I said. Evidently, if the other airlines have managed to sell out even in the expensive booking classes, the reason for AF not selling their cheap ones can be anything but price!
AF played a lot with yield management and prices were substantially higher whenever I checked. Now they are stuck releasing cheap seats and award seats and still can't fill up their plane. I have been on the same flight a year ago in a sold-out J cabin ... now it's O9!
cfischer is offline  
Old Dec 21, 08, 6:58 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: Flying Blue Silver
Posts: 5
CDG-JFK last monday - plane was 60% full. Business Class filled at 50%.

How sad it is to see empty business seats especially when you're a gold/platinum member...

And when you ask for an upgrade at the counter, still the same old speech :

- Ticket is not eligible for miles upgrade (unless Y or whatever)
- You have to pay the full amount

Is there a reason for this speech ? Why can't they propose last-minute upgrades for a reasonable fare or offer them to good customers ? If I had an airline, I would run it this way...
nathan1901 is offline  
Old Dec 22, 08, 1:02 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,358
I like AF so I could pay 10% more to fly with them. Sometimes they are 50% above the competition or more, for a similar service. Flying AF would be throwing money through the window.
af fp is offline  
Old Dec 22, 08, 1:45 am
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SXB/MLH
Programs: Hilton Gold, BA Gold
Posts: 15,755
Originally Posted by nathan1901 View Post
Is there a reason for this speech ? Why can't they propose last-minute upgrades for a reasonable fare or offer them to good customers ? If I had an airline, I would run it this way...
your airline would probably be a US airline then because if this was official policy, everybody would buy cheaper fares and hope to upgrade them last-minute. noone would buy biz-tickets. the result would be less revenue in premium class. and then ... well at least their product is still superior to US airlines which operate using the practice you where asking for ...
chrissxb is offline  
Old Dec 22, 08, 2:57 am
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: FB AF Silver, BA Gold
Posts: 11,438
Originally Posted by chrissxb View Post
your airline would probably be a US airline then because if this was official policy, everybody would buy cheaper fares and hope to upgrade them last-minute. noone would buy biz-tickets. the result would be less revenue in premium class. and then ... well at least their product is still superior to US airlines which operate using the practice you where asking for ...
Fully agreed. Good airlines dont offer premium seats at dirt-cheap prices just to satisfy elite FFP.
brunos is offline  
Old Dec 22, 08, 3:01 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: BRU
Programs: A3/Gold, BA/Bronze + other less precious metals
Posts: 2,634
Originally Posted by nathan1901 View Post
CDG-JFK last monday - plane was 60% full. Business Class filled at 50%.

How sad it is to see empty business seats especially when you're a gold/platinum member...

And when you ask for an upgrade at the counter, still the same old speech :

- Ticket is not eligible for miles upgrade (unless Y or whatever)
- You have to pay the full amount

Is there a reason for this speech ? Why can't they propose last-minute upgrades for a reasonable fare or offer them to good customers ? If I had an airline, I would run it this way...
'ere we go again...
nomad1974 is offline  
Old Dec 22, 08, 3:40 am
  #13  
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 12,212
Originally Posted by cfischer View Post
This should be PEAK season for AF, but my flight tomorrow is far from full.

BOS-CDG is Y9N9W3J9E9 W3 and E9

did OLCI and it's WIDE open

if I look at the LH flight BOS-FRA it's Y8F2

same thing on Friday when my wife flew BOS-FRA the LH flight was Y0J0F0 (and packed!) whereas AF was selling N,L-class until departure.

AF prices have been consistently $200 more than any other competitor for most of Europe ... are they finally paying the price and seeing less passengers? The weekend before x-mas is supposed to be jampacked, but not this year on AF ...
I don't really see the link, as the LH surcharges are not really that different.
JOUY31 is offline  
Old Dec 22, 08, 5:55 am
  #14  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Gold, Amex Plat
Posts: 24,469
Originally Posted by JOUY31 View Post
I don't really see the link, as the LH surcharges are not really that different.
don't care how they calculate things and whether they are in base price or in taxes. I looked @ C-class BOS-FRA and Y-class BOS-FRA ... the difference is striking. If AF cannot fill their planes on the x-mas weekends, there is something wrong.

Other than the fact that this trip to FRA (aeh I mean invol. rerouted to MLH, but of course not my luggage) was again horrific, there are many reason why AF planes are not full.
cfischer is offline  
Old Dec 22, 08, 9:25 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SXB
Programs: Flying Beurk Silver, BA Gold, BD Gold rememberer, A-club Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,472
Originally Posted by cfischer View Post
don't care how they calculate things and whether they are in base price or in taxes. I looked @ C-class BOS-FRA and Y-class BOS-FRA ... the difference is striking. If AF cannot fill their planes on the x-mas weekends, there is something wrong.

Other than the fact that this trip to FRA (aeh I mean invol. rerouted to MLH, but of course not my luggage) was again horrific, there are many reason why AF planes are not full.
I understand you don't care how it is split between "fuel surcharge" and "ticket price". But you complain that fuel surcharge are unreasonable, and point out that you chose to travel with a company having around the same unreasonable fuel surcharge...

Your complain is that AF is overpriced, not the fuel surcharge level...
Richelieu is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread