San Gottardo

Thanks for the info.

In the meantime I checked on the AF site and I learned that the strike starts on November 14 at 00h00, so all of Friday is affected already. Which means my return from the US East coast is threatened as well

Really disappointed, for the first time in almost ten years I book AF for a TATL and so far it's been an experience of no functioning OLCI for my outbound flight (=having to turn up at CDG an entire hour before departure) and a possible strike for the return journey. Bad luck I guess

JOUY31

Thank you for your very courteous reply . I, too, have little sympathy for the strikers. But I believe this is an issue where discussing with the pilots and the flight attendants before voting on the legislation would have been the better approach. And yes, delaying the vote on this issue, which is not particularly time critical, has benefits that certainly outweighs, IMHO, the inconvenience of a delay in passing the legislation. Again, in my personal opinion, now is not the time for anyone (including the strikers) to inflict a EUR 100 million (at least) impact on an industry sector, especially one that is hard hit by the economic downturn and the turbulences on the oil market. But then, that's just me and my unconventional thinking .

andre1970

I'm really proud of myself . So far this strike cost me nothing. Fully flexible tickets are useful sometimes!
Not to disappoint you any further but learning is important with AF. Myself, I have completely avoided AF for 12 consecutive years. Rude behavior from AF staff was the reason. And although this thread is a brilliant opportunity to start a nice AF bash, I won't seize the opportunity. I have to admit nevertheless that I expect to see my baggage bungled big-time in CDG on Friday. And the excuse will be the pilots' strike.

brunos

I was under the impression that this is not a new issue and that the discussion had been going on with the pilots and FAs for a very, very long time. With only one answer from most unions: NO this is not negociable.
As a taxpayer that subsidizes the retirement system of these people, I understand the frustration of our elected representatives. As a pilot of FA , I would be keen on retaining some antique advantages. But the changes are minimal and the airline industry must realize that they still live in another age. Their strike power has delayed the changes at some airlines, but it cannot continue forever. This is a competitive environment. Sorry JOUY31 but I disagree with you. Given the critical time for the French economy, such an unbelievable benefit , paid by the State not AF, is not sustainable. The nation cannot continue to subsidize these guys.

JOUY31

I understand your approach, but I don't believe the cost of the subsidy is on the same scale as the damage to our economy in general and its impact on the competitiveness of companies depending on the success of French airports, especially the Paris hub, against their European competitors. AF is holding its own against BA and LH, while ADP, for the time being, is resilient against other platforms such as MAD, which has just had another momentous drop in traffic (-13.2 % !) FRA (-4.9 %) and LHR (-3.7 %). France, as a tourist destination, is still the country visited by the greatest number of tourists, but is no longer the country where the total spend is the largest. Do we need to push this industry sector over the edge ?

brunos

I understand your point. But we are talking about billions of subsidy year after year, as wellas injustice to other workers. Strikes never come at a good time. Indeed action should have been taken earlier during the airline boom period. But AF personnel would have been even more ferocious than now when 1) all French workers have recently seen their retirement benefits reduced (need now 41 years of work to get full pension), most other "special" systems, such as AF system, have been revamped in the past couple of years and 2) the poor state of the economy dictates that everyone makes an effort.
A change in AF pension system has to be done by the parliament as this is inscribed in the "code de l'aviation civile" which rules all French airlines (meaning mostly AF). It is because of arguments such as " the cost of an AF or ADP strike is too high to be borne by the French economy" that nothing has been done for decades. And AF had no motivation to push for a reform as the cost is primarily not borne by the company.
Too bad for AF shareholders. But BA and LH have already moved forward despite very painful strikes. Earlier would have been better than later, but a brusque decision is probably the only way to advance in such a situation which has been frozen for years because of unions inflexibility.

stimpy

LH suffered a long brutal strike recently and they are continuing quite well since then. If AF management continues to do a good job, I am sure that AF will recover from this action. I'm not really worried about any long term impact to AF or France. As you say, Paris is the worlds top tourist destination. The numbers might go down a 1-2%, but we can survive that.

Falco Peregrinus

Le Figaro has an interesting article today shedding light on the byzantine disputes between factions of the pilots union (SNPL). Yesterday evening 29 pilot representatives voted for the strike against... 28 who opposed the motion.

The expected cost of the strike is equivalent to the purchase of a brand new 777. The cancellation of one 777 purchase order would impact the recruitment of more than 20 pilots and 100 PNCs by the airline.

Source (in French)

NickB

Doesn't this have a feeling of déjà-heard? How many times have required reforms been adjourned sine die because of industrial protests with government and Parliament paralysed like a rabbit caught in a car's headlights? Isn't it time to break the spell?

Anyway, moving back from the OMNIesque derivation, I take it that we do not have any specific information on the expected impact on domestic flights then?

Falco Peregrinus

Checking out Actualité des vols, it appears that:

• ORY-TLS: 7 flights are canceled, out of 29
• ORY-NCE: 5 flights are canceled, out of 20
• ORY-MLH: 3 flights are canceled out of 7
• ORY-MRS: 3 flights are canceled out of 17

NickB

Thanks, Falco. ^
I had not realised that they had already started to announce some specific flight canx.

crimsongirl

My flight from JFK to CDG at 9:00 pm on Friday 11/14 (as well as the one at 5:15 pm) have been cancelled. can't get anyone on the phone.

crimsongirl

Does anyone have any experience with air france cancellations? Should I expect them to be unhelpful? I doubt very much they can put me on another flight from JFK to CDG since the two flights that were cancelled were nearly fully.

Hopefully I'll at least get a voucher. What a PITA.

JOUY31

I am not sure the two amendments voted will result in billions being saved.

brunos

Probably not as the parliament has again adopted that "compromise' attitude where they accomplish very little. Nor will the limited pilot strike result in 100 million cost.
As long as no one dare touch the obvious problems at AF and ADP for fear of strikes, we will have to suffer through the same shameful service at CDG and the arrogant attitude of AF staff who often treat customers as a disturbing factor in their life. I guess that I have now lived too long in Asia to remain tolerant of AF/ADP attitude towards customers. Sad when you see some of the magnificent job done by AF staff in outstation.