EU compensation rules question
May 25, 2005, 1:45 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,631
EU compensation rules question
We have a legal but tight connection in CDG. If the VCE-CDG flight is slightly late, we could miss the transatlantic (CDG-ORD) flight and there are no later flights that day.
So would we be compensated based on a (say) 45 min delay of the first flight, or based on the 24-hour delay of our entire itinerary? This was not clear to me from reading the new EU rules.
So would we be compensated based on a (say) 45 min delay of the first flight, or based on the 24-hour delay of our entire itinerary? This was not clear to me from reading the new EU rules.
May 25, 2005, 2:54 pm
#2
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Originally Posted by kalia960
We have a legal but tight connection in CDG. If the VCE-CDG flight is slightly late, we could miss the transatlantic (CDG-ORD) flight and there are no later flights that day.
So would we be compensated based on a (say) 45 min delay of the first flight, or based on the 24-hour delay of our entire itinerary? This was not clear to me from reading the new EU rules.
So would we be compensated based on a (say) 45 min delay of the first flight, or based on the 24-hour delay of our entire itinerary? This was not clear to me from reading the new EU rules.
Cancellations and denied boarding and long delays are more explicitly covered than "connecting" flight scenarios.
May 25, 2005, 7:27 pm
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
The regulation speaks of a flight being delayed "beyond its scheduled time of departure". It is therefore the delay at origin that counts to determine whether the Regulation applies or not.
In any event, the regulation does not provide for compensation in case of delays. Compensation is in case of denied boarding and, in some cases, flight cancellations.
In any event, the regulation does not provide for compensation in case of delays. Compensation is in case of denied boarding and, in some cases, flight cancellations.
May 25, 2005, 8:29 pm
#5
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Pismo Beach, CA
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite, UA Premier 1K, TAP Silver, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 1,544
May 25, 2005, 8:29 pm
#6
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Paris
Programs: BA ExClub Blue (ex Silver), Flying Blue Silver (ex Platinum), M&M forever base soldier
Posts: 723
Originally Posted by thezipper
Where can I get a copy/view the new EU regs? Thanks!
You can access the pdf file by googling these keywords:
"261 2004 parlement européen rčglement"
May 26, 2005, 4:16 am
#7
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Munich, Germany
Programs: LH HON, DL FO/MM, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, Accor Lifetime Platinum, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 6,174
There is no compensation for flight delays, so it does not help you anything except that AF has to pay for amenities, which would include the hotel stay if you are forced to stay overnight.
Only denied boarding as well as flight cancellations grant you rights to compensation!
Only denied boarding as well as flight cancellations grant you rights to compensation!
May 26, 2005, 8:32 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Originally Posted by rcs85551
There is no compensation for flight delays, so it does not help you anything except that AF has to pay for amenities, which would include the hotel stay if you are forced to stay overnight.
Only denied boarding as well as flight cancellations grant you rights to compensation!
Only denied boarding as well as flight cancellations grant you rights to compensation!
May 26, 2005, 9:35 am
#9
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Munich, Germany
Programs: LH HON, DL FO/MM, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, Accor Lifetime Platinum, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 6,174
Originally Posted by NickB
mmm... where do I get this feeling of deja-lu from ?
May 26, 2005, 5:21 pm
#11
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Originally Posted by rcs85551
There is no compensation for flight delays, so it does not help you anything except that AF has to pay for amenities, which would include the hotel stay if you are forced to stay overnight.
Only denied boarding as well as flight cancellations grant you rights to compensation!
Only denied boarding as well as flight cancellations grant you rights to compensation!
for sub-1500km flights -- 2 hour delays;
for 1500 - 3500km flights -- 3 hour delays;
for 3500+ km flights -- 4 hour delays
Such delays require the airlines to provide adequate facilities -- for meals, accomodations, transfers, and communication.
And when the delay is greater than 5 hours, the operating airline must also offer a refund of your ticket with a free flight back to your initial point of departure, when relevant.
Last edited by GUWonder; May 26, 2005 at 5:26 pm
May 26, 2005, 7:28 pm
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Originally Posted by NickB
Yes, but you are not entitled to compensation, as both rcs85551 and myself have said.
This issue becomes even more interesting when dealing with award tickets.
May 26, 2005, 7:47 pm
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Exactly. It is a refund, not compensation. This cannot be regarded as compensation as it only covers the situation where you do not make your trip to your destination. You do not get a refund if the delay is on the return. It is only when you do not fly at all or fly part of your outward itinerary but decide to come back half-way on your way to your destination because the trip would not serve any purpose any more as a result of the delay that the issue of a refund arises.
With awards, they would presumably have to re-credit your miles, which does indeed get fun if the ticket is issued using miles from another FFP.
Compensation is entirely distinct. It is the set sums defined in article 7 of the reg. As I read it, in case of DBC or canx, you may be entitled both to compensation and reimbursement. In case of delay, you are only entitled to reimbursement, and then only if you don't fly and the delay exceeds five hours.
With awards, they would presumably have to re-credit your miles, which does indeed get fun if the ticket is issued using miles from another FFP.
Compensation is entirely distinct. It is the set sums defined in article 7 of the reg. As I read it, in case of DBC or canx, you may be entitled both to compensation and reimbursement. In case of delay, you are only entitled to reimbursement, and then only if you don't fly and the delay exceeds five hours.
May 26, 2005, 8:09 pm
#15
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Originally Posted by NickB
Exactly. It is a refund, not compensation. This cannot be regarded as compensation as it only covers the situation where you do not make your trip to your destination. You do not get a refund if the delay is on the return. It is only when you do not fly at all or fly part of your outward itinerary but decide to come back half-way on your way to your destination because the trip would not serve any purpose any more as a result of the delay that the issue of a refund arises.
With awards, they would presumably have to re-credit your miles, which does indeed get fun if the ticket is issued using miles from another FFP.
Compensation is entirely distinct. It is the set sums defined in article 7 of the reg. As I read it, in case of DBC or canx, you may be entitled both to compensation and reimbursement. In case of delay, you are only entitled to reimbursement, and then only if you don't fly and the delay exceeds five hours.
With awards, they would presumably have to re-credit your miles, which does indeed get fun if the ticket is issued using miles from another FFP.
Compensation is entirely distinct. It is the set sums defined in article 7 of the reg. As I read it, in case of DBC or canx, you may be entitled both to compensation and reimbursement. In case of delay, you are only entitled to reimbursement, and then only if you don't fly and the delay exceeds five hours.
I have already faced a cancelled KLM flight using NW miles since this regulation became effective; I have not yet filed my claim, but I am curious on how KLM approaches the issue since they refused to re-route me on the first available flight to my "final" scheduled destination and instead choose to keep me a captive customer in such a way that I arrived at my destination a full 15-hours later.
Last edited by GUWonder; May 26, 2005 at 8:15 pm