rcs85551

From the FB membership guide:

Non-French:
25K or 15 segs / 40K or 30 segs / 70K or 60 segs

French:
30K or 15 segs / 60K or 30 segs / 90K or 60 segs

ALEXIS2004

To all,
Please visit the KLM forum thread "Flying Blue membership kit". Some fresh and interesting info is there.

blairvanhorn

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418001

dctorres

It looks like the only listed benefits of platinum are going to be mileage bonuses. Will the 100% N American bonus continue?

JOUY31

So, if I summarize the position of current F+ rouge cardholders based in France (subject to the fine print), which is only one facet :

- no downward change in benefits or mileage earning
- no upward change in requirements, except with the introduction of a Platinum level at 90K qualifying miles
- increased benefit for Rouge moving to Gold : the elite mileage bonus rises from 50% to 75%
- increased benefit for Rouge moving to Platinum : the elite mileage bonus rises from 50% to 100%.

In addition, for all F+ members, regardless of their elite level, the class of service bonus :
- rises from 50% to 100% for intra-European l'Espace Affaires and Tempo Challenge
- rises from 100% to 200% for l'Espace Première
- Central America and some South America awards are slightly cheaper with the introduction of two zones, but that may only be the result of the overlap of the two networks

Still a few questions about :
- mileage earning minimum values (currently 1,000 miles for international flights)
- mileage earning for long-haul and medium-haul flights in discounted Tempo à la LH/BA (currently good)
- mileage earning for domestic flights (currently not so good)
- do domestic segments count for achieving status based on segments ? (currently, no)
- is the class of service bonus qualifying ? (currently, yes)
- are the AF-AMEX Gold Card miles qualifying ? (currently, yes)
- are upgrades possible from anything else than full-fare tickets ? (currently, no)
- RTW awards ?

And there seems to be (hopefully) a typo about the "Access to lounges" benefit which has, as a comment, "CDG/SPL".

An analysis for F+ Rouge members based outside France hinges on the continued existence of the so-called "North American" bonus. There is apparently no specific change for current F+ Bleu members.


Many thanks to rcs85551 for this valuable information

dctorres

the lounges seem to be for intl' flights only, which is similar policy

JOUY31

Updated, thanks once again to rcs85551

Position of current F+ rouge cardholders based in France (subject to the fine print), :

- no downward change in benefits or mileage earning
- no upward change in requirements, except with the introduction of a Platinum level at 90K qualifying miles
- increased benefit for Rouge moving to Gold : the elite mileage bonus rises from 50% to 75%
- increased benefit for Rouge moving to Platinum : the elite mileage bonus rises from 50% to 100%.

In addition, for all F+ members, regardless of their elite level :
- the class of service bonus rises from 50% to 100% for intra-European l'Espace Affaires and Tempo Challenge
- the class of service bonus rises from 100% to 200% for l'Espace Première
- Central America and some South America awards are slightly cheaper with the introduction of two zones, but that may only be the result of the overlap of the two networks
- One-way awards can be booked

Still a few questions about :
- mileage earning minimum values (currently 1,000 miles for international flights) BAD : it is now 750 miles !!
- mileage earning for long-haul and medium-haul flights in discounted Tempo à la LH/BA (currently good) still no information
- mileage earning for domestic flights (currently not so good) still no information
- do domestic segments count for achieving status based on segments ? (currently, no) No, unchanged
- is the class of service bonus qualifying ? (currently, yes) Yes, unchanged
- are the AF-AMEX Gold Card miles qualifying ? (currently, yes) Yes, unchanged
- are upgrades possible from anything else than full-fare tickets ? (currently, no) still no information
- RTW awards ? available, but no specific information is available

And there seems to be (hopefully) a typo about the "Access to lounges" benefit which has, as a comment, "CDG/SPL".

An analysis for F+ Rouge members based outside France hinges on the continued existence of the so-called "North American" bonus. There is apparently no specific change for current F+ Bleu members.

Additional benefits for F+ Rouge members moving to FB Platinum
- additional baggage allowance of 20kg, instead of 10kg
- access to all SkyTeam lounges (regardless of airline flown ??, does it include the partner lounges, such as airport lounges,probaby not)
- lifetime Platinum status after 10 years of F+ Rouge and FB Platinum status
- level miles (which replace qualifying miles, just as award miles replace bonus miles) are carried over from one year to the next after a threshold of ... 150,000 level miles or 105 non-domestic boardings (which replace segments) in a year (OK, it is just 115,000 miles, or 105 boardings of any type for FB Platinum members from outside France).

Let's also note, for the record, that although all documentation have a balanced perspective for AF and KL flyers, the geographic distinction applies only to ... France. Not only for domestic flights , but also for requirements for each elite level.

Well, let's take this as an "exces d'honneur"

JOUY31

For intra-European flights shorter than 750 miles, with unrestricted tickets (Tempo Challenge or l'Espace Affaires)

- 1,500 qualifying miles were awarded by F+ (1,000*1,50)
- 500 bonus miles were awarded with F+ (1,000*0,50)

- 1,500 level miles will be awarded by FB (750*2)
- 375 award miles will be awarded by FB to Silver members (750*0,50)
- 562 award miles will be awarded by FB to Gold members (750*0,75)
- 750 award miles will be awarded by FB to Platinum members (750*1)

So F+ Bleu members will loose some award miles per intra-European segment (sorry, I mean boarding) shorter than 1,000 miles.

I also hope that, just as in the past, the minimum miles awarded is figured out BEFORE applying the class of service bonus, not AFTER, as AA applied it to one of my LHR-CDG flights on BA.

Richelieu

I used to ***** about this discrepancy. But let's take into account that excluding intra-Netherlands flight would be kind of pointless... I don't think there are so many Dutch domestic flights.

EDIT: sorry, but is "b i t c h about something" a profanity? Really, I'd like to know, before using it in a formal occasion... It triggered the FT filter, but it's only because of the noun taken alone, is it?

Regarding the threshold, we see that the difference for the first level is 5k, and 20k for the second and third levels. On the other hand, it seems that Dutch resident don't get qualifying miles with their AMEX card... Is it safe to guess that they calculated that the average French-based Rouge member would use an AF/AMEX card, and earn around that amount of qualifying miles in average? So the discrepancy would only be a balancing method?

Jouy, another question still unanswered is how they'll split the Rouge members, even though I guess it will be along the 70/90k line.

JOUY31

I agree it is still unanswered. It seems that the FB Gold benefits are not lower than the F+ Rouge benefits. So AF would not be decreasing the benefits enjoyed by current lower (than 70K/90K) F+ Rouge members. I still think that it would be a wise commercial move to move all current F+ Rouge members to Platinum and redistribute them at the end of the year, based on their 2005 activity. Well, hope springs eternal , and I did get past, quite unknowingly, this hurdle, last December.

Another unanswered question is whether FB Gold will be SkyTeam Elite Plus. Keeping in line with AF's policy it would seem logical for FB Gold to be awarded SkyTeam Elite Plus. We just need to prepare ourselves for the ... comments of DL Gold Medallion members who are SkyTeam Elite, unless SkyTeam is also preparing an overhaul of its elite levels.

Richelieu

Theoretically, they decrease in priority list orders. But with so many things giving priority, it's not that significant.

It may be. After all, the AF website still says that Rouge will be sorted according to their qmiles, not last year's activity... According to what has been said here, F+ staff doesn't know really well yet, maybe because it's a complicated formula taking into account previous activity and current activity this year. Or simply, lack of organization

It wouldn't cost a lot to comp all Rouge in Platinum level, since the only "cost" would be a few (25%) bonus, err, award miles given to AF customers over KL. Since KL had some very interesting promotions in the past, and they get to convert their accumulated miles at a 1 for 1 rate, I don't think that AF would go broke by giving this little bonus to all Rouge.

Depriving current Rouge members of Elite Plus status would make the threshold for getting E+ in AF at 90k... With DL you only need 75k. Should we go there and make snide remarks in our usual way ?

Another question brought up by apoivre in the sister-thread in KLM's forum is the lack of qualifying miles on non-Skyteam partners, like Air Calin or Kenya, who use FD/F+ as their FFP... I fail to see how they could stop giving qualifying miles to their customers for regional flights.

rcs85551

You can earn award and level miles on:

Aeromexico, Air France, Alitalia, Continental, CSA, Delta, Kenya Airways, KLM, Korean Air, Northwest.

Aircalin only earns award miles in Flying Blue.

rcs85551

From Amadeus:

rcs85551

From the booklet I received, it is clear:

Silver / Gold: SkyTeam Elite
Platinum: SkyTeam Elite Plus

dctorres

First of all, rcs85551 , I'd like to publicly thank you for all this wonderful information you've posted here and on the KLM board. Absolutely brilliant, thanks!

Re: Elite/Elite Plus, in the booklet you published, there are still lounge benefits for Gold, which is something Elite would not be entitled to - just Elite Plus. This is why I'm confused as to the clarity of the Gold level elite status. Was there any other information that led you to feel this way?