hfly

Well, they'll go from just about the worst Biz of any major airline, to som ething in the top half. I do find it somewhat "cheap" that they are 1) leaving in middle seats in Biz, and 2) Not making the Biz seats flat/horizontal. It seems like an incredible waste.

I also have realized that Af is also going for the Y traveller from now on because in addition to what I posted above, it would seem that the Maximum amount of premium seating on a 744 will be 40 Biz seats period, and almost 400 Y.

blairvanhorn

Thanks for the updated info and the links, Jouy!

Despite the repetitive negative comments from the usual naysayers here, I am quite happy with these developments. The current First and Business cabins, regardless of the excellent service I have seen/enjoyed, were looking a bit tired.

At the beginning of the year, I switched from years of flying long haul with UA and * Alliance to AF - I am very, very happy with my choice. Yes, I am based in Paris, so I have very few complaints about the "chronic" luggage mishandling or late arrivals/missed connections (I have flown over 60K miles this year and not had one problem - all flights were on time, except a return flight from Brazil which, despite almost making an unscheduled landing in Abidjan for technical problems, arrived only one hour behind schedule).

I have flown long haul mostly with AF and, against my will, twice with a Delta codeshare. The difference, in Y at least, was night and day (I won't be able to compare premium cabin service for Delta as I don't intend on ever using Delta's hybrid business/first product if I can help it). Service and food on AF were very, very good on ALL flights; Delta food and service was mediocre at best.

I enjoy the professionalism, poise and, yes, the "distance" offered by the AF staff on the ground and in the air. Yes, I speak French fluently, but I have seen this same service offered on a standard basis to non-French speaking passengers as well. There is a bit of a cultural difference: the French are not going to become your best buddies because you are flying 11 hours together in a metal tube or because you are checking in with a trillion-mile über-elite titanium card but still treat the ground staff like servants.

Jouy has offered typically sage advice in previous threads for dealing with AF "attitude": stand your ground politely yet firmly, don't scream or insult, work with the staff (or give them the impression that you are!) to resolve problems reasonably, etc.

I do have a problem with the lack of jetways for disembarking, especially after long haul flights (I was greeted with a bus on about 40% of my flights this year, though both Delta flights enjoyed jetways). From what I have read and seen, this problem is slowly but surely disappearing - good riddance.

Well, back to topic - the lack of fully flat "beds" in Business does not bother me one bit - I think the overhaul will mesh nicely with the already existing excellent service/catering and I am looking forward to it.

The 2-3-2 seating on the 777s and 747s (looks like 2-2-2 on the A340s and A330s) is pretty much like UA's current product, so I don't have a problem with it - yes, I will avoid the middle seat if flying Business, but I hardly think this is "cheap" - AF is making money (of course! they are subsidized! ) and I'll happily deal with a middle seat in Business if it means that my preferred airline is solvent and continues to provide a superior product, which it currently does and will be able to do even better with the premium cabin overhauls.

As for the reduction of First Class seats, well, at least AF can still offer its top customers a First Class cabin on selected (and profitable) routes!

P.S. I'm really enjoying the lounges!

(Edited for spelling!)

[This message has been edited by blairvanhorn (edited 09-28-2003).]

dctorres

ygm

[This message has been edited by dctorres (edited 09-28-2003).]

hfly

Hmmm.

I still stand by what I've said although will expand. I find any airline that keeps a middle seat in Business Class to be CHEAP. Plain and simple. The one time that an airline tried to stick me in a middle seat, I refused to fly. They found me another seat.

As for "really flat" I satnd by what I said. They are already introducing a dated product even before it launches (which BTW was already stated by someone earlier in the thread).

As for the Nasa line, I am sure that many recall that this was the excuse (sales line) given to the wonderful Espace 127 product for many years (which they dropped two years ago when it became undefendible).

JOUY31

So, you didn't tell us you had shifted from Bleu to Rouge. I think we need to celebrate this and I definitely would be happy to offer you a glass of Champagne, along with the AF board regulars, including our IST based (unless I am mistaken) frequent poster.

dctorres

Blair and I had a battle royale to make it to Rouge this year.

Now that I have it, I don't know what to do with it

blairvanhorn

Avec plaisir!

STAM4NICK

Its looks good to me. Business looks pretty simliar to the Virgin J2000 seat style, just in different colors. I rreally love the center seat look of the First class. Those doubel seast, tunre dinwards, with large "side tables" the do not have to be stowed or moved look nice. The color scheme looks nice too. Privacy looks good.

It is shame they will not be taking out the middle seats in Business. Also that they are reducing the number of the First class seats. But then again to reduce both First class and Business class per aircraft capcity might be hard. And it is too bad that Business does not go fully flat totally. A330ans 340 are 2-2-2 and others are 2-3-2.

2E looks really nice, though I am afraid the Premiere side of the lounge (from the pics) looks "hard" and uncomfortable with all the hard pale wood...but I do like the pale wood grain on the aircraft.

It looks like passengers in first will get a sleeper suit and slipper. I wonder what the difference between offered and available is?

Read the PDF's. It has lots of information with pics.

JOUY31

Actually, the feeling is quite pleasant and the combination of red and brown leather quite elegant. It didn't feel hard at all. On the other hand, the colors of the Affaires lounge seem just a little too bland in comparison.

JOUY31

The new LH Business Class seat features a nine degree angle to the floor.

R&R

Flying First on CX LAX-HKG-BKK on two roundtrips, that it is NOT comfortable to lie completely flat in the reduced cabin pressure and oxygen levels! The sensation of shortness of breath or Oxygen and probably blood pressure was not condusive to sleeping. But with the seat back slightly elevated it was more then acceptable. So I can appreciate the 13 degree angle of the flattened seat with the floor in BF to be preferable to totally flat. Of course, I would prefer the legs to be more elevated. But anything is better then a LONG haul in an normal seat!

Do you consider the blood oxygen levels when discussing the seat or simply have numerous drinks to overlook it?

Cheers,



------------------
It is never to late to have a Happy Childhood!

staylor9

I am trying to plan an award trip from Atlanta to Italy for next spring (April/May). My options are either to fly Delta Business Elite (direct) or Air France first class with a connection through CDG. Will the ATL-CDG route have the new seats and if not, how does the old AF first compared to the Delta BE? Would you all recommend I take AF first through CDG or take DL BE where I could fly direct to rome and then on the way back connect from Venice through JFK?
Thanks!

dctorres

I've created this thread as a sticky due to a number of posts in recent months all querying the availability of the new AF premium cabins.

To date, the new travel concept is currently available in its business class format to 3 destinations:

Philadelphia
Newark
Bamako

The Tokyo route is the next route scheduled to be refitted.

Please feel free to add more to this thread as I'm sure I'm leaving a bit out.

dctorres

Hello,

A search of the AF forum should provide you with the answers you seek. This route almost certainly will not have the new seats.

For information on the new seats, I've created a sticky featuring information on the new travel concept. I'm sure others will help me fill it out.

Derek
AF Moderator

zurichflyer

Having flown in the new business class to Tokyo in July I could see that the new business and first class is available from Paris to Tokyo twice daily until end of October. From November only the late night flight in each direction will be the new equipment.