Bought a flex fare, Air France won't refund it
Dec 7, 22, 9:28 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 7
Bought a flex fare, Air France won't refund it
I purchased a flex fare from LIT-MUC back in October for travel in March 2023. I purposely selected a flex fare because there was a good chance I would have to cancel. I am 100% positive I selected flex fare, I even called Air France to confirm it would be refundable.
On my receipt it says there is no charge for a refund, but there is no indication of "flex" anywhere. The ticket was about $750 + $440 in taxes.
I cancelled and was refunded a small amount of the taxes ($113). I called Air France and they said the ticket is non-refundable. They wouldn't budge, even though my receipt says clearly that it is indeed refundable.
I contacted Amex and sent them the receipt, they refunded me.
Then today, weeks later, Amex contacts me and says Air France provided them information that the ticket was non-refundable, so they re-billed me.
Do I have any recourse here? No where on any document does it actually say Flex fare. The cabin classes are listed (R, R, T, L) but no where except on the receipt does it say anything about a refund.
Really upset that Air France is just planning on keeping $1000 for a trip cancelled on a refundable ticket several months in advance
On my receipt it says there is no charge for a refund, but there is no indication of "flex" anywhere. The ticket was about $750 + $440 in taxes.
I cancelled and was refunded a small amount of the taxes ($113). I called Air France and they said the ticket is non-refundable. They wouldn't budge, even though my receipt says clearly that it is indeed refundable.
I contacted Amex and sent them the receipt, they refunded me.
Then today, weeks later, Amex contacts me and says Air France provided them information that the ticket was non-refundable, so they re-billed me.
Do I have any recourse here? No where on any document does it actually say Flex fare. The cabin classes are listed (R, R, T, L) but no where except on the receipt does it say anything about a refund.
Really upset that Air France is just planning on keeping $1000 for a trip cancelled on a refundable ticket several months in advance
Dec 7, 22, 10:33 am
#2
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: BRE
Programs: FB, SPG, AccorHotels, Hertz, Avis
Posts: 63
Air France tries hard to hide the fare structures, but their Russian subsite provides an overview:
https://russia.airfrance.com/en/info...fare-structure
According to that, international travel in the classes R, T and L is not refundable. Which is funny, because when doing a test booking for the future on the same route as a flex economy, AF shows e.g. fare code RKX57RMZ which would indicate class R (unless the fare structure have changed again since 2020). Are fare classes country of booking dependant as well? Or maybe their page is just not updated.
https://russia.airfrance.com/en/info...fare-structure
According to that, international travel in the classes R, T and L is not refundable. Which is funny, because when doing a test booking for the future on the same route as a flex economy, AF shows e.g. fare code RKX57RMZ which would indicate class R (unless the fare structure have changed again since 2020). Are fare classes country of booking dependant as well? Or maybe their page is just not updated.
Dec 7, 22, 10:52 am
#3
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: ST E+, *G, some hotel gold...
Posts: 6,832
That overview is outdated and has been for ages.
All letters can have all conditions.
For example
RLW87NBL - Basic Economy
RLW87SM2 - Main Cabin
RLW87RMZ - Flex
It is hard to say more without extra details about your ticket (if you can pull more detailed information through Saudia or Amadeus, would be very helpful) but I would deifinitely look up if DOT can help.
eta: RKX57RMZ has different other conditions attached in comparison with RLW87RMZ for example the advance purchase is 50 days as opposed to 28 days.
All letters can have all conditions.
For example
RLW87NBL - Basic Economy
RLW87SM2 - Main Cabin
RLW87RMZ - Flex
It is hard to say more without extra details about your ticket (if you can pull more detailed information through Saudia or Amadeus, would be very helpful) but I would deifinitely look up if DOT can help.
eta: RKX57RMZ has different other conditions attached in comparison with RLW87RMZ for example the advance purchase is 50 days as opposed to 28 days.
Dec 7, 22, 11:40 am
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,134
Can't add any more, other than to advise that is almost ALWAYS better to hold off on buying a ticket until you know you will actually be able to travel.
Given that you now know you're not traveling, if the decision had been the other way, you could now purchase a one-way for travel in March that is about half the price you paid to AF.
Don't pay more than you have to - wait to buy until you know you're going to have to fly - and then, buy the cheapest possible ticket you can find (and not the "more" expensive "refundable" ticket that you bought earlier)
Given that you now know you're not traveling, if the decision had been the other way, you could now purchase a one-way for travel in March that is about half the price you paid to AF.
Don't pay more than you have to - wait to buy until you know you're going to have to fly - and then, buy the cheapest possible ticket you can find (and not the "more" expensive "refundable" ticket that you bought earlier)
Last edited by irishguy28; Dec 7, 22 at 11:46 am
Dec 7, 22, 11:45 am
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,134
Air France tries hard to hide the fare structures, but their Russian subsite provides an overview:
https://russia.airfrance.com/en/info...fare-structure
According to that, international travel in the classes R, T and L is not refundable. Which is funny, because when doing a test booking for the future on the same route as a flex economy, AF shows e.g. fare code RKX57RMZ which would indicate class R (unless the fare structure have changed again since 2020). Are fare classes country of booking dependant as well? Or maybe their page is just not updated.
https://russia.airfrance.com/en/info...fare-structure
According to that, international travel in the classes R, T and L is not refundable. Which is funny, because when doing a test booking for the future on the same route as a flex economy, AF shows e.g. fare code RKX57RMZ which would indicate class R (unless the fare structure have changed again since 2020). Are fare classes country of booking dependant as well? Or maybe their page is just not updated.
It might help if we knew the full fare basis, just "R" or "L" or "T" is not enough.
The 6th letter of the fare basis code indicates whether and to what extent the fare is refundable. From this thread
I don't think this has been discussed yet, it looks like AF has a new fare structure for European and Intercontinental flights since 15APR.
The fare basis have a different structure, example: GS50OBLG
- First letter is the booking class (G here)
- Second letter is the season:
S = valid all year round
L = Low Season
H = High Season
There might be the usual K and J as well for shoulder season etc. I have not found any yet.
- Then there is a figure that codes the week days validity
1 = midweek
2 = week-end
5 = any day (used for Europe it seems)
0 = any day (used for long haul perhaps?)
- then one character for advanced purchase requirement
0 = no advanced purchase (instant purchase fare type)
6 = 15 days (at least for Europe)
X = 60 days
2 = 3 days
4 = 7 days
- The next letter is the minimum stay requirement:
O = minimum 3 nights or Saturday night at destination for European flights
A = no minimum stay (same day round trip possible)
B = one way (note that it might sometimes be cheaper to buy 2 one ways than a "A" return)
I = minimum 3 nights or Saturday night for Long Haul flights
W = 7 days minimum
U = U=TRAVEL FROM INBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR MUST COMMENCE NO
EARLIER THAN 6 DAYS AFTER ARRIVAL AT TURNAROUND
OR - TRAVEL FROM INBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR MUST
COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN THE FIRST SUN AFTER ARRIVAL
AT TURNAROUND.
- The next letter is the flexibility
A = no flexibility at all
B = changeable for a fee, non refundable (70 EUR fee for European fares)
C = changeable for a fee, refundable for a fee (only long haul)
E = full flex, no fee for refund or changes (European and long haul)
M = changeable for a fee, non refundable; shorter maximum stay (300 EUR and 3 months for discounted business class)
- The last 2 digits is for the brand type
LG = Light (no checked bag economy class) Europe
LB = Light fares long haul
ST = Standard (one checked bag economy class)
FX = Flex (one checked bag economy class)
NB = No Brand (which means business class for European flights)
The fare basis have a different structure, example: GS50OBLG
- First letter is the booking class (G here)
- Second letter is the season:
S = valid all year round
L = Low Season
H = High Season
There might be the usual K and J as well for shoulder season etc. I have not found any yet.
- Then there is a figure that codes the week days validity
1 = midweek
2 = week-end
5 = any day (used for Europe it seems)
0 = any day (used for long haul perhaps?)
- then one character for advanced purchase requirement
0 = no advanced purchase (instant purchase fare type)
6 = 15 days (at least for Europe)
X = 60 days
2 = 3 days
4 = 7 days
- The next letter is the minimum stay requirement:
O = minimum 3 nights or Saturday night at destination for European flights
A = no minimum stay (same day round trip possible)
B = one way (note that it might sometimes be cheaper to buy 2 one ways than a "A" return)
I = minimum 3 nights or Saturday night for Long Haul flights
W = 7 days minimum
U = U=TRAVEL FROM INBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR MUST COMMENCE NO
EARLIER THAN 6 DAYS AFTER ARRIVAL AT TURNAROUND
OR - TRAVEL FROM INBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR MUST
COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN THE FIRST SUN AFTER ARRIVAL
AT TURNAROUND.
- The next letter is the flexibility
A = no flexibility at all
B = changeable for a fee, non refundable (70 EUR fee for European fares)
C = changeable for a fee, refundable for a fee (only long haul)
E = full flex, no fee for refund or changes (European and long haul)
M = changeable for a fee, non refundable; shorter maximum stay (300 EUR and 3 months for discounted business class)
- The last 2 digits is for the brand type
LG = Light (no checked bag economy class) Europe
LB = Light fares long haul
ST = Standard (one checked bag economy class)
FX = Flex (one checked bag economy class)
NB = No Brand (which means business class for European flights)
the above may not be fully complete.
also from that thread:
I just did a random search for a one-way via AirFrance.us for LIT-MUC on 15 March, one way.
The first result comes up with the following fare bases (same flight in all cases)
QLX59RMQ - Flex
QLX59NMQ - Standard
QLX59NBP - Light
Having an "M" or "B" in the 7th position, however, doesn't fit with that image taken from the TA website 2 years ago....so it is possibly been updated/changed again since.
However, it's clear you cannot make any assumption about the flexibility of the ticket based on the leading fare bucket designator.
Last edited by irishguy28; Dec 7, 22 at 11:55 am
Dec 7, 22, 12:01 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,134
To the OP: the email confirmation with the subject-line "Booking confirmed - Little Rock-Munich on 03/XX/2023" - i.e. not the actual e-ticket - should have a section towards the bottom indicating the conditions of your ticket.
This is what mine looks like. It wasn't issued by AirFrance.us though, so yours may look somewhat different...but you should have something like this in one of the emails received immediately after purchase:
Please tell us what yours says.
This is what mine looks like. It wasn't issued by AirFrance.us though, so yours may look somewhat different...but you should have something like this in one of the emails received immediately after purchase:
Please tell us what yours says.
Dec 7, 22, 1:53 pm
#7
formerly Sleepy_Sentry
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 596
If you are confident that you are correct, I would do the following:
- Try to make a new booking and screenshot the resulting fare, including the text that shows it is refundable.
- Get any other evidence you have, including the date / time you called AF and your receipt.
- Send a letter by post to Air France (with signature required) and give them 30 days to refund you
- If that does not work, file a lawsuit. I would just go to small claims court in LIT. There is also an EU procedure to file online.
Dec 7, 22, 3:55 pm
#8
Moderator: Aegean Miles+Bonus
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AMS / ATH
Programs: AFKL Plat, A3 Gold
Posts: 7,150
If the OP can post their full fare code we can pull the the exact fare rules and see if there is anything in there that would make it non refundable. And of course, like suggested, to check the email confirmation(s) about the ticket refundability. Apparently it being 'Flex' does not always mean that it can also be refunded.
Dec 7, 22, 8:39 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 7
To the OP: the email confirmation with the subject-line "Booking confirmed - Little Rock-Munich on 03/XX/2023" - i.e. not the actual e-ticket - should have a section towards the bottom indicating the conditions of your ticket.
This is what mine looks like. It wasn't issued by AirFrance.us though, so yours may look somewhat different...but you should have something like this in one of the emails received immediately after purchase:
Please tell us what yours says.
This is what mine looks like. It wasn't issued by AirFrance.us though, so yours may look somewhat different...but you should have something like this in one of the emails received immediately after purchase:
Please tell us what yours says.
Update: after calling Air France again today and insisting on escalating this issue, they called me back an hour later and said yes, this ticket is refundable and sent me a confirmation email to expect the difference to be credited shortly.
The rep was unable to tell me why they initially denied the refund, or why they fought the refund with amex.
Dec 7, 22, 8:41 pm
#10
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: LAX, SNA, LGB
Posts: 424
Mine says refund before first part of flight allowed.
Update: after calling Air France again today and insisting on escalating this issue, they called me back an hour later and said yes, this ticket is refundable and sent me a confirmation email to expect the difference to be credited shortly.
The rep was unable to tell me why they initially denied the refund, or why they fought the refund with amex.
Update: after calling Air France again today and insisting on escalating this issue, they called me back an hour later and said yes, this ticket is refundable and sent me a confirmation email to expect the difference to be credited shortly.
The rep was unable to tell me why they initially denied the refund, or why they fought the refund with amex.
Dec 7, 22, 10:18 pm
#11
Join Date: May 2021
Programs: Flying Blue Gold, BA Bronze, Ex-skywards Platnium
Posts: 646
From my experience a lot of refundable tickets for KL/AF on the surface level show up as non-refundable probably due to the booking fare class. A lot of KL/AF refundable fares show up as non-refundable fares (i.e Z for biz) and the customer service agent/algorithm processing the refund will automatically assume that it's non-refundable. If you try to process the refund online, it takes longer and then will deny you of a refund and you have to call them to get this processed.
I had to cancel a few itineraries the past few months because of certain things popping up and affecting my schedule/work and each time I went to get my refund on the phone, the agent would always say "it's non-refundable" and that I could only get an e-credit for the flight. I would then calmly state what was written on the confirmation email received at the time of booking and then after a twenty minute hold they would finally see that it was a refundable fare. When they start processing the refund, they purposefully say the amount in the wrong currency, like stating that the refund is $4000 CAD which is $3000 USD. Then I would have to correct them and they say "it was a mistake" and then process the amount correctly. If it's like a one time thing, then sure, but this exact scenario has happened to me five times when I was still FB Gold. Hopefully the FB Plat line will be more useful for these things should they occur in the future.
I had to cancel a few itineraries the past few months because of certain things popping up and affecting my schedule/work and each time I went to get my refund on the phone, the agent would always say "it's non-refundable" and that I could only get an e-credit for the flight. I would then calmly state what was written on the confirmation email received at the time of booking and then after a twenty minute hold they would finally see that it was a refundable fare. When they start processing the refund, they purposefully say the amount in the wrong currency, like stating that the refund is $4000 CAD which is $3000 USD. Then I would have to correct them and they say "it was a mistake" and then process the amount correctly. If it's like a one time thing, then sure, but this exact scenario has happened to me five times when I was still FB Gold. Hopefully the FB Plat line will be more useful for these things should they occur in the future.
Dec 8, 22, 1:49 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,134
Surely it would make more sense - and be quicker, more convenient, and cheaper overall - not to buy tickets upfront, refundable and speculatively, but rather hold back until your trip is confirmed and only then buy the cheapest available ticket?
Dec 8, 22, 11:25 am
#14
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: ST E+, *G, some hotel gold...
Posts: 6,832
Especially if you will not be able to confirm the trip until rather closer to time of departure.
Dec 8, 22, 11:29 am
#15
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,020
