matmatlr

You're right, I did not necessarily think about miles obtained by credit cards
One easy solution from AF could have been : No P award ticket if you have not flown P paid tickets within the last 6 months for example

SFO777

Just wondering what exactly is the point of this change and how well thought out this really was. It's not like AF is selling a lot of P seats as it is. Nor are they losing many seats to award travel that would otherwise be sold for cash.

Days with P0 flights are few and far between even under the current "generous" P award policy. Maybe LAX and JFK but those cities are already limited to P4 F2 on each flight at best and some days P4 F0. Most other cities don't have anywhere near that P demand. Checking the next 7 days from all the P service cities to CDG and one can still buy P tickets everyday on almost every flight. And GRU is a pathetic P3, P4, P4, P4, P4 and P3 this coming week.

If you want to limit award travel to higher P demand cities or at peak seasonal times, simply reduce F inventory. There was no need to piss off your best customers who now can't book an award seat for their SO. Then again, it's the lame, short-sighted Air Canada mentality that is now running the show here so it's not surprising.

ps9a

Maybe I'm biased, but from SFO the award seats are less plentiful than GRU--

Dec 2 P0F0, Dec 3 P0F0, Dec 4 P0F0, Dec 5 P1F0, Dec 6 P0F0, Dec 7 P2F0, Dec 8 P2F0, Dec 9 P0F0, Dec 10 P1F0, Dec 11 P1F0, Dec 12 P1F0, Dec 13 P2F0, Dec 14 P3F1, Dec 15 P0F0, Dec 16 P0F0, Dec 17 P0F0, Dec 18 P0F0, Dec 19 P1F0, Dec20 P2F0, Dec 21 P1F0, Dec 22 P0F0.

So exactly 17 P seats for sale over the next 3 weeks, and 1 F seat (on Dec 14th for 230k miles and $196.60 if anyone wants it). Admittedly, as someone unwilling to connect enroute to Europe, I haven't been checking other markets-- though I suspect that booking 2 LP seats during peak travel times ex-SFO (and likely LAX/JFK/etc) months in advance is costing AF significant revenue to the point where they decided to make this change. At the end of the day, booking revenue flights in F through AMEX IAP with miles and rebate for those with Plat/Centurion cards often comes out to a better deal anyway (and accrues miles/helps with status), but it's sad to lose the ability to take my wife to Europe in LP with miles. Not saying I like the changes or trying to defend AF-- I think they could have handled this a lot better-- just pointing out that they are selling these seats in certain markets.

SFO777

You forgot today's SFO-CDG at P4F2. Seriously though, valid point on AF potentially missing advance purchase discounted F sales to award seats, but that can easily be rectified by the limiting F award seats. Release them 30 days out and/or only at in low P demand markets or at seasonally low demand times of the year. And true about Amex IAP Pay With Points costing less miles than FB award tickets. Although you lose some flexibility and making changes these days with AmexTravel's offshore call centers is a major negative.

ps9a

Interestingly, now that these miles are worth less to me going forward, I just got this email....

Until 21 December 2022, you’ll receive a bonus of up to 120% when buying Miles online. So go ahead, create a brand new wish list and start dreaming about how you can turn all these extra Miles into amazing Flying Blue rewards!

Comes to 1.52 cents/mile, which is the lowest I recall seeing ($10,050 for 660k miles if I max out what they're offering). Wouldn't have pulled the trigger anyway, but timing seems a little funny given the other announcement this morning.

San Gottardo

660k can pay for three sectors in La Premiere Paris-New York. For 10,000 USD that is a pretty good deal. Buying the tickets would cost around 22,000 USD.

ps9a

It could also buy 24 sectors in business class AMS-YUL under the promo awards they announced today, which might be an even better deal.

This Month's Promo Rewards

Goldorak

No, planned for 4 seats.

This is indeed the case : P sales are very strong since the Covid period, more than ever.

stimpy

I am not understanding the problem with the one P seat for awards. If you are purchasing 6-7 P tickets per year, you can still use miles to buy a ticket for your SO to sit next to you. What's the problem? To me it seems that AF made the correct move here.

physicsdude

Every time I flew JFK-CDG and back this year, it's always been a full cabin. I heard that LAX-CDG get pretty full as well.

I wonder what the "less popular" routes to NA are? I haven't a clue because I don't pay for Expert Flyer...

Goldorak

I am also one who does not understand the rationale of this change. As others said, they can control the inventory of award seats vs seats for sale. On top of that, redeeming P award seats is a way to reduce drastically the miles balance of FB members and so the provision in the books. And if this is due to those credit card point transfers mentioned above, I have to say that I am a bit fed up with those. I am referring to the rumor about DL considering not allowing anymore lounge access to their Elites Plus flying Y because of lounges overcrowding, while this overcrowding is mostly due to the people accessing lounge thanks to the Amex partnership. But those CC partnerships are so lucrative for airlines…

Goldorak

I am guessing those paid P trips are company paid tickets for business trips and if you want to travel in P for a personal trip with your better half, you may not be happy to have to pay 10k€ for a paid seat on top of one award seat, while before you were able to book 2 award seats using the million(s) of miles you have in bank. They certainly have their reasons to do this, but from the customer perspective, it’s a restriction and certainly not an enhancement.

matmatlr

That's it !
I wouldn't mind much if at least, we could use the Ulti vouchers to upgrade from J to P

Klems

If we are talking about the same thing, ironically enough my understanding is that this is only for DL flyers who get Elite Plus through skymiles. It would not affect flyers who get that status via another airline, because it would go against Skyteam's terms.

Outside of that, the different perspectives here are interesting. I am not racking up nearly enough miles through flying or credit cards to spend them on LP tickets, it's actually cheaper for me to get them if there's a great sale or something like that, or a good upgrade price. But if you have millions of miles to burn through (like a lot of you seem to), that's not great news for sure.

stimpy

Since I am a contrarian I will say it is an enhancement for the customers as there will be less backpack toting, credit card churning freeloaders in the P cabin and P lounge.

And as AF/KL has just discovered the word "bliesure" you are supposed to bring your spouse with you on business trips and take a holiday on the end of the trip.