palmanfr

Hello all,
I appreciate this may be a first world problem and that AF may have bigger problems to deal with today, but by pure coincidence tonight, I was checking at the seat map of a reservation we have for February 2023 and made last month (multi stop itinerary CDG-SIN//BKK-CDG), with the AF165 BKK-CDG operated by a 777-300 to discover that the old "toboggan" 2-3-2 business class was now showing up on the seat map. When I booked last month, it was sold as the new business class configuration 1-2-1 "with full flat seats" (I was even hoping that the new seat with doors would be on this flight as BKK was supposed to be one of the launch routes after JFK). I would have never booked this product at first place if I would have known this would be the configuration and I still wonder how come (1) AF still has this product and (2) why they put it on a 13-hour+ route !

Do you know if AF has history of accepting a rebooking on another service, like the KL operated flights if I call them ? At least the KL fleet is consistent with all aircrafts having full flat seats. Those AF slides are just terrible, and certainly not what I accepted to pay for. I am confident we won't be the only ones disappointed by this configuration change. I know that aircraft swaps do happen, but the product proposed now is without comparison with what was booked at first place.

When in 2019, the same thing happened to me on BA when an A380 booking to HKG I had in business class was changed for a 777, I was able to change my reservation to get back on the A380 instead, even though the product was very similar on both aircrafts. Same thing with QR when they swapped the 777 operating to BKK from a Q-suite product to a non Q-suite... they gladly accepted to rebook me to another flight to match what was initially purchased.

Goldorak

you're not alone
updated information about new J seats deployments and other information

palmanfr

That's right, thanks Goldorak for the link. Sorry, I Did not capture this sticky thread, as I mostly look through the history of the normal threads.
Just at the moment we start to appreciate AF again, they decide to cr@p the bed again. They should be ashamed to fly this thing on a 13-hour flight really. I love the ambition to renovate the 777 to enclosed suites, but bring the rest of your fleet up to proper and consistent standards first (1-2-1 config is now a standard in J) ! I will wait a couple months I guess to see if they revert things again and study options. I am just afraid that since we booked via this May "French" Amex promotion (50% refunded for direct business class flights ex-CDG), they would reissue the ticket if we change the routing to KL via AMS and Amex will take back the cashback... - that would be bad :-D)

brunos

AF had been operating that route with antique seats. Not a big surprise.
Indeed, AF should be ashamed to have so many birds with that antique config. That is one reason why I avoid them longhaul.
I strongly doubt that you will have any chance of a rerouting without a hefty fare difference.

Andy82

Yeah even in the past, that was the type of plane used.
To avoid that, I did the trip via SGN, connecting then with VN (it was really nice, at the time).
I don't think though the SGN flight is operating right now.

Maybe you can consider a rerouting with KLM, at least the 777 has a full-flat seat, though in a 2-2-2 configuration.

ijgordon

Yikes, I think even Lufthansa has all flat beds, no? That’s embarrassing.

olivedel

Equipment swaps happen to all airlines though, all the way to SQ or QR.
Therefore, you should always account for the least appealing product such as this shameful NEV4 product that is an embarrassment for AF.
That’s why I moved my Business to other airlines in the recent years.

palmanfr

I agree that equipment swap happen all the time. This is fine. But then the airline should allow you to be rebooked in a similar product than what they sold you. BA does it. QR does it. That's just a good commercial practice. I was just wondering here if AF would be doing it (I haven't contacted them yet since my flight is 8 months out, so a lot can happen in the meantime, in this case, it cannot get worse though).
At the end, Air France sold us a full flat seat in 1-2-1 configuration when we booked on their website (it was literally displayed like this when selecting the different options available). I am in my right to expect to fly in similar conditions than that. If they would have sold me a 2-3-2 "slider" seat and would have realized that afterwards, that would have been my bad, but it's not the case here as I would have never booked a ticket with a seat like this for a 13 hour trip.

NYC1

Has anyone challenged such a situation with AF. Common sense is that it’s not what you bought / they sold, but we’re dealing with airlines…and I know that LHG takes the view that they’ve sold you a seat in a class and that they can change / define the meaning of that as they wish.

palmanfr

And on the same booking, where I have my return to Europe now on the dreadful NEV4 ex-BKK, my CDG-SIN changed from a 789 to 77W this afternoon, I was scared when I saw the aircraft change to 777-300, to see that this is the version with La Première on it, so the Business class seat is decent on this one !

Bullspread

SQ offers F class on his route SIN/CDG
The cabin shows a very high load factor

SpinEcho

You can get a voucher and then buy new tickets with it, so you wouldn't loose the 50% cashback from Amex.

palmanfr

That could be interesting but are you 100% sure that Amex/AF would not cancel the cashback if I ask for a voucher ? Because that would be an interesting loophole to buy cheaper tickets ex-EU compared to direct flights ex-CDG (which was a very specific requirement for this cashback offer to work, and direct flights in long haul business class ex-CDG are usually more expensive than let's say from the Nordics, Germany, or central/eastern Europe...). In my particular example, CDG-SIN//BKK-CDG was around 2500 Euros (before cash back), while something like DUS-CDG-SIN//BKK-AMS-DUS (or something like that) was around 1600 Euros-ish back then. Similar rates if departing ARN or OSL

maalloc

Nothing is sure when it comes to bending the rules, but I can give you a data point (two, actually). During Covid, Amex ran cashback offers which I used to buy tickets that I eventually didn't fly.
They were refunded (not just converted to vouchers) and Amex claimed the money back.

lynxy

If they were refunded, of course Amex is aware that the transaction was reversed. But if the tickets are converted to vouchers, I don't see how Amex could know about it (or why they would care, because they don't have to pay money back to the card-holder, so it's most likely not a problem for them).