The AF short and medium-haul business class catering photo thread

Old Apr 14, 2024, 4:18 am
  #526  
 
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Originally Posted by NickB
Well, what else do you expect, frankly? Comments from a customer on their own are never going to shift the dial. Consistently negative net promotion scores from a significant proportion of the customer base might do and, in that context, the narrative of customer complaints becomes relevant but no airline is going to change its product or engage meaningfully and substantially with individuals customer comments on the quality of catering.
I do remember when BA simplified its Business Class meals and started serving hot paninis to the uproar of its customers. After a lot of complaints they improved the service. So it works.
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Old Apr 14, 2024, 4:38 am
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Honestly, financial figures and numbers matter the most. Some financial analyst and sales manager probably ran the numbers, and figured that the revenue lost from "a few dissatisfied customers" is easily outweighed by the cost savings. Prove them wrong.

If an aspect of an airline is that much of a deterrent, best way is to vote with your feet and give your money to someone else. That's what I do for everything, not just airlines. I refuse to give Groupe LH any of my money despite me and my relatives living at two ends of two *A fortress hubs.
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Old Apr 14, 2024, 5:21 am
  #528  
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Originally Posted by BA6948
I do remember when BA simplified its Business Class meals and started serving hot paninis to the uproar of its customers. After a lot of complaints they improved the service. So it works.
The question is, was the BA paninis part of an agreement with the cabin crew union? If not, it is easier to reverse....
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Old Apr 14, 2024, 8:29 am
  #529  
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Originally Posted by NickB
Well, what else do you expect, frankly? Comments from a customer on their own are never going to shift the dial. Consistently negative net promotion scores from a significant proportion of the customer base might do and, in that context, the narrative of customer complaints becomes relevant but no airline is going to change its product or engage meaningfully and substantially with individuals customer comments on the quality of catering.
Originally Posted by BA6948
I do remember when BA simplified its Business Class meals and started serving hot paninis to the uproar of its customers. After a lot of complaints they improved the service. So it works.
i personally dont think there is incompatibility between those two things - no airline will change service based on a handful of individual complains, but equally airlines generally want customers to be happy given the very competitive scene of the (European) airline industry.

so it’s quite common for airlines to ask cr to run regular reports on the most frequent topics of complaint. Equally, when they launch a new or different service, or if something is already on their radar, it’s not rare for them to specifically ask if there are significant positive/negative reactions.

perhaps more importantly, airlines are not unified actors - there will be some people within af who won’t give a monkey, others who’d be only too happy to sacrifice customers to placate unions, and others yet who are perfectly aware this is shameful and want it changed. In many ways, we’re only pawns in that game but if many people complain and the good guys are willing to pick up a fight on our behalf, all you can do is give them aminitions, though never with any guarantee of success of course…
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Old Apr 14, 2024, 9:18 am
  #530  
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Originally Posted by NickB
Well, what else do you expect, frankly? Comments from a customer on their own are never going to shift the dial. Consistently negative net promotion scores from a significant proportion of the customer base might do and, in that context, the narrative of customer complaints becomes relevant but no airline is going to change its product or engage meaningfully and substantially with individuals customer comments on the quality of catering.
Except NPS went up when AF introduced the cold trays. Across the board.
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Old Apr 14, 2024, 11:29 am
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Originally Posted by BA6948
Did they apologize and promise to improve things?
Fair apologies but I do not expect anything will change soon.

"Je comprends votre contrariété et regrette les désagréments qui ont été les vôtres à cette occasion. En effet, le salon était fermé à l’heure du départ de votre vol
(bla bla bla...).
Par ailleurs, je déplore que la prestation servie à bord n’ait pas été à la hauteur de vos attentes. Aussi, souhaitant avoir une attention à votre égard, compte tenu de votre statut et des difficultés rencontrées, j’ai le plaisir de vous offrir, à titre commercial, un bonus...
(bla bla bla...)".
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Old Apr 14, 2024, 1:38 pm
  #532  
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Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey
Except NPS went up when AF introduced the cold trays. Across the board.
Thanks for adding your input to the conversation - it is (genuinely) appreciated. However, are you referring to when AF introduced this after the Covid period of nothingness or to another time? There would arguably not be much merit in nps going up when af reintroduced some tray service after the Covid period.

more generally, if the argument is that customers prefer those cold trays on all flights to the full meals we were getting before on flights above 2.5 hours, I hope I can be forgiven for not believing the colleagues who may tell you that. I was part of the group of “clients referents” years ago when some AF staff tried to convince us customers were very clear they didn’t want flat seats in J and preferred the revolutionary nev seats. Needless to say that that sort of discourse only served to make AF waste precious time and shares in the crucial long haul J segment (and thank god better people imposed their views later) and they not only us but many of the other AF leadership team staff listening rightly thought the people reaching those conclusions and sharing them with the airline shouldn’t be trusted with assessing customer preference if they were the last humans left on earth
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Old Apr 15, 2024, 2:44 am
  #533  
 
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Originally Posted by Yolow
Fair apologies but I do not expect anything will change soon.

"Je comprends votre contrariété et regrette les désagréments qui ont été les vôtres à cette occasion. En effet, le salon était fermé à l’heure du départ de votre vol
(bla bla bla...).
Par ailleurs, je déplore que la prestation servie à bord n’ait pas été à la hauteur de vos attentes. Aussi, souhaitant avoir une attention à votre égard, compte tenu de votre statut et des difficultés rencontrées, j’ai le plaisir de vous offrir, à titre commercial, un bonus...
(bla bla bla...)".
Same as the answer I got minus the miles bonus. Although on a previous complaint I got 5000 miles.
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Old Apr 15, 2024, 2:50 am
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Originally Posted by orbitmic
Thanks for adding your input to the conversation - it is (genuinely) appreciated. However, are you referring to when AF introduced this after the Covid period of nothingness or to another time? There would arguably not be much merit in nps going up when af reintroduced some tray service after the Covid period.

more generally, if the argument is that customers prefer those cold trays on all flights to the full meals we were getting before on flights above 2.5 hours, I hope I can be forgiven for not believing the colleagues who may tell you that. I was part of the group of “clients referents” years ago when some AF staff tried to convince us customers were very clear they didn’t want flat seats in J and preferred the revolutionary nev seats. Needless to say that that sort of discourse only served to make AF waste precious time and shares in the crucial long haul J segment (and thank god better people imposed their views later) and they not only us but many of the other AF leadership team staff listening rightly thought the people reaching those conclusions and sharing them with the airline shouldn’t be trusted with assessing customer preference if they were the last humans left on earth
Not sure about the NPS going up. Had a conversation with a flight attendant mid 2022 and I remember she was telling me that when the cold traus were introduced the feedback was somehow negative. Some passengers on longre routes to ATH, EVN or IST thought that after the cold meal, they would get a hot meal and were disappointed that the meal was just that the cold meal.

But it seems to me that AF and KL frequent travallers are less "militant" than those of BA. So may be we are in the minority here which is a shame.
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Old Apr 15, 2024, 3:44 am
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Originally Posted by BA6948
Not sure about the NPS going up. Had a conversation with a flight attendant mid 2022 and I remember she was telling me that when the cold traus were introduced the feedback was somehow negative. Some passengers on longre routes to ATH, EVN or IST thought that after the cold meal, they would get a hot meal and were disappointed that the meal was just that the cold meal.

But it seems to me that AF and KL frequent travallers are less "militant" than those of BA. So may be we are in the minority here which is a shame.
as Ulti PAX, I skip AF on purpose when it comes to flying to Greece and Turkey because of the J service (+ better seat on TK)
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Old Apr 15, 2024, 6:06 am
  #536  
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Originally Posted by BA6948
But it seems to me that AF and KL frequent travallers are less "militant" than those of BA.
I think that is partly true - despite the reputation for the French to be "raleurs" But I think that there is more than that - AF European C cabins are typically a lot smaller in my experience - often 3-6 rows on most of the flights I take vs 8-12 on BA ones. In turn, I suspect AF premium travel includes a bigger proportion of corporate contracts (with companies that may often pick AF as default and passengers who may care a little less about the inflight product) whilst BA is perhaps more aggressive about upselling to independent corporate travel and leisure travel.

That's ultimately fair enough if that is what AF still want (again, from years ago, I remember some AF execs telling me that at the time they felt Y was in fact their most profitable cabin whilst BA were swearing by J) though I suspect that since competition on price from the low cost and the ME3 is not going anywhere and AF managed to reinvent an absolutely amazing P product and hugely improve long haul J, they may feel, at some point, that connecting J (which can mean people travelling to/from ATH, IST and the likes) is worth a bit more of an effort...
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Old Apr 15, 2024, 10:50 am
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Originally Posted by orbitmic
I think that is partly true - despite the reputation for the French to be "raleurs" But I think that there is more than that - AF European C cabins are typically a lot smaller in my experience - often 3-6 rows on most of the flights I take vs 8-12 on BA ones. In turn, I suspect AF premium travel includes a bigger proportion of corporate contracts (with companies that may often pick AF as default and passengers who may care a little less about the inflight product) whilst BA is perhaps more aggressive about upselling to independent corporate travel and leisure travel.

That's ultimately fair enough if that is what AF still want (again, from years ago, I remember some AF execs telling me that at the time they felt Y was in fact their most profitable cabin whilst BA were swearing by J) though I suspect that since competition on price from the low cost and the ME3 is not going anywhere and AF managed to reinvent an absolutely amazing P product and hugely improve long haul J, they may feel, at some point, that connecting J (which can mean people travelling to/from ATH, IST and the likes) is worth a bit more of an effort...
I think actually that most of J Business Class passengers are connecting from or to long haul Business which make this proposition more bearable as otherwise you would be eating a lot of food on both flights. And that’s why the Business Class cabin in very small.

But then again, the cabin is so small that 1 FA on a CDG-TUN or ATH would finish his/her service in around 15 minutes (put a timer once).

Flown AZ on a TUN-FCO in J. Flight time was 55 minutes. I swear I could see the FA heating the meals before take off and it took her 15 minutes to serve 3 rows of Business Class one by one from the galley.

on the other side, AF fares in Business are much higher than BA, yet BA ends having a much better service.

It is just laziness from AF side. But the good thing is that some on the FB platinum and gold Facebook groups are starting to get annoyed by this. Hope complaints are increasing. And one FA told me that management are reading comments on that group. So you never know.

but things will take time, as even for serving a box with sandwiches and sweats for domestic J, special trainings needed to be done.
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Old Apr 25, 2024, 3:55 pm
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My takeaway from all this is...my lunchtime CDG-HEL meal next week will be a cold meal?
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Old Apr 25, 2024, 4:35 pm
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Originally Posted by skydelt
My takeaway from all this is...my lunchtime CDG-HEL meal next week will be a cold meal?
So would your morning or evening flight.
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 12:37 am
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Recent meals on CDG-Germany-CDG evening flights:




the 1st one was good. The 2nd one (quinoa…) was really bland.
Both desserts were good.
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