generikz

Hello!

I seem to be very unlucky with a CDG-HND flight booked for end of September...

I initially:

• Booked J and used miles to upgrade to First
• Paid more to get the evening flight to HND (less costs for the mandatory private driver from to Tokyo) vs. NRT

First, it seems that all AF flight to Japan are A350-900 now and they don't have a First section anymore.
AF downgraded me to J but the 120K miles used for the upgrade are still in limbo more than 2 months later and several requests to refund them.
I also lost the free limo ride to the airport, must pay taxi now.

Second they discontinued all HND flights starting around mid-September and moved me now to the next day NRT afternoon flight.

So... now I:

• Have pay an extra hotel night in Paris to catch the next day flight
• Am not getting any cash compensation for getting the cheaper NRT flight
• Will have to pay an extra in private driver from NRT to Tokyo vs. HND to Tokyo
• Will have to negotiate with company to get someone to replace me since I'm also reaching morning time when I was supposed to be on-duty for work.

Should AF try to compensate some/all of these issues in some ways?

Julien

flyerCO

EC261 comes into play. You are entitled to compensation for the downgrade. (Or AF can route you in F on another carrier) You are also entitled to reimbursement for any additional expenses you incur due to change, plus transportation to HND from NRT.

You need to contact AF. Make sure you point out you were downgraded and had destination changed (and if needed point out AF needs to fulfill their EC261 obligations).

CyBeR

Interesting, I have a flight booked for dec that's on 789. But indeed it was also on 77W before so P has been axed.

Still on for HND in Dec, but they did cancel quite a few flights including the one I had booked originally on the 21st.

Given the current situation and outlook on Japan's border closure I can't really blame them for downscaling.

Well a downgrade should always be compensated so definitely; though in that case I'd expect only the J service and nothing more of course.

I'm also curious as to how you're getting into Japan in september seeing as how they're not letting anyone in and probably won't change that by that time?

Edit: it has come to my attention that you simply live in japan which answers that question nicely.

brunos

Your location is Tokyo, so I assume that you have no problem flying into Japan.

Your situation is not pleasant, But not as bad as that of many other pax.

To add to your worries. AF is flying an old 77W to NRT twice a week. It has the old non-flat 2x3x2 J seats.
I would ask them to move you to F on JL to HND. But I doubt that they would do it, as you are partly using miles.

generikz

Thank you for pointing out that, I called AF later and they pointed to that as well, with a claim to be filled AFTER the flight.
I am permanent resident in Japan and can reenter with a 3-day quarantine + 11-day isolation from France with the current rules.

However EC261 also says that it doesn't apply if I was informed more than 2 weeks before the flight (which is the case) even though I already made the first flight and can't change my plans anymore now.

Will also check what aircraft is scheduled for AF0276 on Sept 20!

Julien

NickB

That is not entirely connect. What you are not entitled to if you are informed of a cancellation more than 2 weeks in advance is the Article 7 compensation (i.e. the €600 for arriving later or departing earlier if rerouted on a different flight). The rest of the regulation still applies, including any rerouting obligation and including downgrade compensation.

brunos

On 20/9 AF 276 is scheduled on a "new" 77W with P (and flat beds in J). The Mondays flights seem with P and the Thursdays flights with the old seats.

I think that you should insist that they put you in F on AF276 20/9. They have two seats already booked (P2/F1), so they are reluctant to accomodate a miles-upgrade pax while they could sell a full P ticket who might otherwise go to JL on Sunday or Tuesday. Keep insisting and they might agree when departure gets near. I would also insist on being rerouted on JL on Sunday evening.

As NickB stated, the EC261 regulation does apply, even if you are not subject to compensation for cancellation given the early warning.
Article 8 states that you should be offered rerouting at the earliest opportunity (that would be JL46 on SUnday.
Article 9 states that you should be offered right of care if you are moved to the Monday AF276 flight. That would include hotel.
Article 10 states that you should be offered 75% compensation. That is a bit tricky as they will argue that you are only owed miles, but you should try to get more.

Good luck.

FireEmblemPride

Baffling that AF would keep the NRT flight but not the HND one. I'm assuming they're only doing this because KLM is stuck at NRT (with no HND slots forthcoming).

CyBeR

Perhaps NRT having better transit options (if I understand the covid rules correctly transit is only permitted at NRT on the same calendar day though I may be wrong) is the reason for that.

A cursory glance tells me that CDG-HND flights are all cancelled until 31oct, after which they are operated thrice weekly (sun, wed, fri) as af274 on 789.

generikz

Very interesting. When I checked a few days ago, First cabin was not available on the AF0276 and now it is again (one seat left).

I missed AF cust. support tonight by a few minutes but I will call again tomorrow.

Julien

Goldorak

AF is not keeping NRT because of KL, but because of the important connection to NOU operated by SB which is unfortunately stuck at NRT.

generikz

Update after talking directly with AF over the phone:

1. Last First seat (1L) rebooked to honor my initial booking
2. JL046 was not an option as the F seat was a miles upgrade
3. Only other option would be CDG-AMS-ITM-HND (25h+ with a 10.5h transit in Osaka!) => no way

Among other points:

• Person on the phone was quite sure I wouldn't get compensated for the extra night in Paris (you can take the KLM flight via Osaka if you prefer to not spend another night in Paris)
• Didn't know if the private driver from hotel to CDG was still included with this booking.
• Was quite sure the increase in cost due the NRT instead of HND (after Covid quarantine you can't take taxi or public transportation, must arrange a private driver) would not be cover
• Was quite sure the difference in price (NRT return flight was cheaper than HND by about 1~1.5KEUR) would not be covered as well.

In any case, claims based on EC261 can only happen after the flight have been finished so I'll try to present my case after I return.

I'll try to negotiate miles instead of cash as a compensation, it's probably easier for them.

Thanks for your guidance and advice here!

Julien

generikz

(update post-flight)

So I flew the CDG -> NRT final leg in First class as rebooked.

• Free limo was included (you just need to call 24h before at the AF Premiere number).
• I got a "we are truly sorry for the flight change" email from CS with 15K miles gift and a request to send invoices of extra costs when back in Japan (hotel + difference in private driver from NRT to Tokyo instead of HND to Tokyo)

In a way, the change of day was a blessing in disguise because the 3-day hotel + 11 days at home quarantine for residents arriving from France was lifted the day before (only 14 days at home now). Also, there was a typhoon over Japan the days before, could have been trouble as well.

Talking to the staff about the temporary pause on HND, it seems that the move was pushed by Japan, not Air France. They are moving most (if not all) international flights to NRT to have enough staff in a single location to process all incoming passengers. The "Arriving Flight" screens at NRT were quite sad: only one screen, 11 flights of which 3 were cancelled.



If you are curious about reaching NRT in First: they are supposed to let the passenger in transit exit first, then the passengers ending their journey in Tokyo - to avoid crossing streams of people needing COVID testing and people just passing by, I presume. As a First you get to exit before them, and a local staff will escort you all the way to the final customs exit.

With an early exit, reaching the COVID desk first with saliva (negative) test #1 for the day, I spent around 2.5h doing all the paperwork, forms, apps installation, registration, etc. and was out by 11:30am. It usually lasts 3h to 4h from what the local staff told me.
The dedicated staff was helpful to help me book a private driver over the phone numbers list provided by the airport. Scheduled initially at 1pm but arrived at 12:15. I had requested a similar service before but got an email mid-flight that they could not honor my booking.

For reference, the on-going rate seems to be Y15,000 for HND-Tokyo et Y30,000 for NRT-Tokyo.

Julien

brunos

Merci for the detailed report.

Goldorak

Thanks for the report, but what a madness with all this theatre…