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-   -   COVID Restrictions to entry in France (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-france-frequence-plus/2024180-covid-restrictions-entry-france.html)

bostontraveler Mar 19, 2021 3:56 am


Originally Posted by maalloc (Post 33111581)
And what if our hypothetical travellers are living in France but with a German passport? Or US citizen with french residency? ;)

Joke aside, I agree with you. I don't see *how* these travel restrictions could be enforced in CDG 2F. But again, all current travel shenanigans were unexpected even 1 year ago... I guess the actual implementation will depend on how important the government thinks travel is these days.
Political communication about travel was done a few weeks ago, maybe they'll just let it go now. Though I doubt that "traveling to BCN" is a valid reason to leave home if you live in Paris, wherever you are controlled.

well I’m an Italian citizen resident in France traveling to Milan... here’s to hope!

Amrikibibaris Mar 19, 2021 3:57 am

Particularly for the information of fellow American citizens resident in France, I pass along the following information from a Zoom session organized by two American associations based in Paris (AARO and AAWE, whose full names I won't spell out) that featured the American consul general and two of his officers dealing with American citizen services and passports. Close to half the questions had to do with travel; filtering out those that had to do with U.S. travel restrictions and visas to the U.S., about a third dealt with French travel restrictions. The questions underscored the complex nature of the American community in France: families of mixed nationalities, families divided between the U.S. and France, Americans with professional and medical reasons for needing to travel regularly across the Atlantic, etc. The main points, as I recall them, were:

--Travel by Americans between France the and the U.S. has slowed to a bare trickle.
--French immigration officers are applying the restrictions strictly/rigidly. The general presumption seems to be denial of travel except for the most serious situations outlined on the attestations, e.g., grave medical conditions requiring urgent hospitalization. The consulate general's current understanding is that PAF is not swayed by the argument that availability of vaccination in the U.S. is a sufficient medical ground for urgent travel.
--Most alarming: The embassy is investigating reports from Americans seeking to travel to the U.S. as returning to their "country of origin" that PAF either confiscated their titres de séjour or were obliged to surrender them before being allowed to depart. There was no further information as to the circumstances, although the consular officer relating this indicated that PAF officers could tell from their computers which travelers possessed a titre de séjour. It was also not clear what effect this had or would have on the traveler's residence status in France. In any case, the USG has no legal standing to challenge French actions to implement its laws/regulations.
--Partly in response to a question I posed, the consular officer stated that he is still reviewing the recent ruling by the Conseil d'Etat as well as modifications to the restrictions recently announced by the French government. He was not aware of the part of the Conseil d'Etat's ruling that characterized the examples of various motifs impérieux as "indicative."
--The embassy claimed to be attentive to the question as to whether some sort of double standard or discriminatory treatment was in effect as regards the departure from/entry into France by non-French/EU citizen residents but reiterated that, except as it would impinge on the ability of American citizens/legal permanent residents of the U.S. to travel to the U.S., it was the sovereign right of the French government to establish and apply its rules on travel.
--Again in response to something I said, the consular officer agreed that 1) one had to be prepared to argue with PAF regarding any travel and 2) it was imperative to stay cool. The consular officer stated that it is never a good idea to get into a fight with an immigration officer and that, generally speaking, getting angry almost guarantees a bad outcome.,

The French PM's long-winded announcement of the new lockdown for Ile-de-France+ was going on at the same time as this Zoom event. My takeaway is that, irrespective of the recent ruling of the Conseil d'Etat, the GOF remains convinced that its hard line on non-EEA travel is one of the few things that has "worked" in its so far losing struggle against the variants. This is, of course, an argument that is easy to make but impossible to sustain based on real evidence. In short, we're f***ed.

More later, no doubt.

bostontraveler Mar 19, 2021 3:58 am


Originally Posted by NickB (Post 33111590)
presumably both?

I highly doubt they would make you pay the 135€ and let you pass.
They would make you pay and send you home.

NickB Mar 19, 2021 4:10 am


Originally Posted by bostontraveler (Post 33111595)
I highly doubt they would make you pay the 135€ and let you pass.
They would make you pay and send you home.

Indeed, hence my post.

bostontraveler Mar 19, 2021 4:11 am


Originally Posted by Amrikibibaris (Post 33111593)
Particularly for the information of fellow American citizens resident in France, I pass along the following information from a Zoom session organized by two American associations based in Paris (AARO and AAWE, whose full names I won't spell out) that featured the American consul general and two of his officers dealing with American citizen services and passports. Close to half the questions had to do with travel; filtering out those that had to do with U.S. travel restrictions and visas to the U.S., about a third dealt with French travel restrictions. The questions underscored the complex nature of the American community in France: families of mixed nationalities, families divided between the U.S. and France, Americans with professional and medical reasons for needing to travel regularly across the Atlantic, etc. The main points, as I recall them, were:

--Travel by Americans between France the and the U.S. has slowed to a bare trickle.
--French immigration officers are applying the restrictions strictly/rigidly. The general presumption seems to be denial of travel except for the most serious situations outlined on the attestations, e.g., grave medical conditions requiring urgent hospitalization. The consulate general's current understanding is that PAF is not swayed by the argument that availability of vaccination in the U.S. is a sufficient medical ground for urgent travel.
--Most alarming: The embassy is investigating reports from Americans seeking to travel to the U.S. as returning to their "country of origin" that PAF either confiscated their titres de séjour or were obliged to surrender them before being allowed to depart. There was no further information as to the circumstances, although the consular officer relating this indicated that PAF officers could tell from their computers which travelers possessed a titre de séjour. It was also not clear what effect this had or would have on the traveler's residence status in France. In any case, the USG has no legal standing to challenge French actions to implement its laws/regulations.
--Partly in response to a question I posed, the consular officer stated that he is still reviewing the recent ruling by the Conseil d'Etat as well as modifications to the restrictions recently announced by the French government. He was not aware of the part of the Conseil d'Etat's ruling that characterized the examples of various motifs impérieux as "indicative."
--The embassy claimed to be attentive to the question as to whether some sort of double standard or discriminatory treatment was in effect as regards the departure from/entry into France by non-French/EU citizen residents but reiterated that, except as it would impinge on the ability of American citizens/legal permanent residents of the U.S. to travel to the U.S., it was the sovereign right of the French government to establish and apply its rules on travel.
--Again in response to something I said, the consular officer agreed that 1) one had to be prepared to argue with PAF regarding any travel and 2) it was imperative to stay cool. The consular officer stated that it is never a good idea to get into a fight with an immigration officer and that, generally speaking, getting angry almost guarantees a bad outcome.,

The French PM's long-winded announcement of the new lockdown for Ile-de-France+ was going on at the same time as this Zoom event. My takeaway is that, irrespective of the recent ruling of the Conseil d'Etat, the GOF remains convinced that its hard line on non-EEA travel is one of the few things that has "worked" in its so far losing struggle against the variants. This is, of course, an argument that is easy to make but impossible to sustain based on real evidence. In short, we're f***ed.

More later, no doubt.

excellent info.. thanks.

Yeah, this government is convinced a lot of their brilliant things don’t stink... ahem.

The notion that this policy has kept out other strains is a bit misleading.

And their continued affirmations that the vaccine program has been a smashing success is a blatant lie and nauseating to hear over and over.

The truth is that the longer they take to vaccinate, the more likely it will be that we will have a Bordelais and a Lyonnais strain. That’s just science.
It will happen and they will run out of excuses.

They need to get off their high horses and behinds, stop the proclamatatory and self-congratulatory speak- so dear to the French- and get people vaccinated.

bostontraveler Mar 19, 2021 4:19 am


Originally Posted by NickB (Post 33111601)
Indeed, hence my post.

sorry quoted your post instead of the previous one.

San Gottardo Mar 19, 2021 4:55 am


Originally Posted by bostontraveler (Post 33111591)
well I’m an Italian citizen resident in France traveling to Milan... here’s to hope!

Same situation here. I can travel freely (I just sign a professional waiver for myself, not a problem). I also have foreign passports, and so do my children. The head-scratcher for me is whether I can take them to see their grands-parents in Germany or Switzerland. There seems to be no rule against leaving the country, but moving between regions is constrained and requires motif imperieux.


Originally Posted by bostontraveler (Post 33111602)
The truth is that the longer they take to vaccinate, the more likely it will be that we will have a Bordelais and a Lyonnais strain. That’s just science.

I think I have heard on the news a few days that there is a "variant breton".

NickB Mar 19, 2021 5:51 am


Originally Posted by San Gottardo (Post 33111650)
there is a "variant breton".

no doubt a cousin of the 'grand-breton' variant :).

maalloc Mar 19, 2021 6:15 am


Originally Posted by bostontraveler (Post 33111595)
I highly doubt they would make you pay the 135€ and let you pass.
They would make you pay and send you home.

Not necessarily. Tourdumondiste.com, which has been maintaining a good list of travel restrictions (link), ran a poll during the second lockdown.

Quite a few travelers where caught out of their home on their way to the airport, including apparently landside at the terminals. They had to pay the 135€ fine (going on holidays not being a valid reason to be out), but could go on their way to their flight.
PAF has a right to stop you when controlling your "motif imperieux", yet it seems that the Police Nationale does not have the power to send you home for breaching lockdown.

As others already pointed out, someone taking a EU flight from CDG 2F is unlikely to be controlled by PAF.

NickB Mar 19, 2021 6:42 am

"
 

Originally Posted by maalloc (Post 33111739)
PAF has a right to stop you when controlling your "motif imperieux", yet it seems that the Police Nationale does not have the power to send you home for breaching lockdown.

I can't see why not. Preventing somebody from committing an offence (or continuing to commit an offence) is ordinary "police administrative" stuff that police authorities are in principle empowered to do without special authorisation so I would have thought that the PN could prevent you from taking a plane if your doing this constitutes a breach of the covid regulations.

bostontraveler Mar 19, 2021 6:49 am


Originally Posted by San Gottardo (Post 33111650)
Same situation here. I can travel freely (I just sign a professional waiver for myself, not a problem). I also have foreign passports, and so do my children. The head-scratcher for me is whether I can take them to see their grands-parents in Germany or Switzerland. There seems to be no rule against leaving the country, but moving between regions is constrained and requires motif imperieux.



I think I have heard on the news a few days that there is a "variant breton".

there is indeed.. just read yesterday that 8 people have died from it so far.

maalloc Mar 19, 2021 6:49 am


Originally Posted by NickB (Post 33111790)
I can't see why not. Preventing somebody from committing an offence (or continuing to commit an offence) is ordinary "police administrative" stuff that police authorities are in principle empowered to do without special authorisation so I would have thought that the PN could prevent you from taking a plane if your doing this constitutes a breach of the covid regulations.

No idea what's the ground behind this either.
I'm merely reporting that, in all data points that TDM gathered, not a single traveler was prevented from boarding (the only member who reported it in the poll said afterwards he checked the wrong box). But quite a few did get a fine somewhere between their doorstep and the jetway.

brunos Mar 19, 2021 7:00 am


Originally Posted by bostontraveler (Post 33111800)
there is indeed.. just read yesterday that 8 people have died from it so far.

The Asterix variant was cited in my local press as one of the variants that can escape detection from some PCR tests.

blairvanhorn Mar 19, 2021 7:07 am


Originally Posted by maalloc (Post 33111585)
Or simply make you pay the 135 € "exit tax" as was done before :rolleyes:

For frequent flyers that will be 3750 € ;)

bostontraveler Mar 19, 2021 7:13 am


Originally Posted by brunos (Post 33111821)
The Asterix variant was cited in my local press as one of the variants that can escape detection from some PCR tests.

Currently we have a Jupiter variant which is out of control.


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