Old Jan 31, 2024, 5:20 pm
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Content from on.the.bowery


In 2024, customers will find La Premiere on to 11 destinations.

La Premiere is available if you are flying to Tokyo, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New-York City (JFK), Washington DC, Miami, Abidjan, Singapore, Mexico City*, Sao Paulo and Dubai.

*Please note that Air France will discontinue the La Premiere service on the Mexico City (MEX) route on the 31st of March.

In 2024, you will find La Premiere on the following flights :

(All flights are in / out of Paris CDG. Exact timing varies during the year. These times are based on departures and arrivals in the month of May or August (middle of 2024)).

From Paris to New York City (JFK) :
AF4 10:30 - 12:45
AF6 13:30 - 15:50
AF8 16:30 - 18:50 (This flight does not systematically offer P Product)
AF10 18:30 - 20:40 (This flight will not offer P product after the month of June)
From New York City (JFK) to Paris :
AF1 16:30 - 05:55+1
AF5 18:30 - 08:05+1
AF7 21:30 - 11:05+1 (This flight does not systematically offer P Product)
AF9 23:15 - 12:40+1 (This flight will not offer P product after the month of June)


From Paris to Los Angeles (LAX) :
AF20 08:45 - 11:25 (P Product on this flight only in July and August)
AF22 10:40 - 13:05
AF24 13:30 - 16:05
From Los Angeles (LAX) to Paris :
AF21 13:40 - 09:20+1 (P Product on this flight only in July and August)
AF23 15:20 - 11:15+1
AF25 18:30 - 14:20+1


From Paris to San Francisco (SFO) :
AF84 10:15 - 12:45
From San Francisco (SFO) to Paris :
AF83 15:00 - 10:50+1


From Paris to Abidjan (ABJ) :
AF702 14:35 - 18:55
From Abidjan (ABJ) to Paris :
AF703 21:30 - 05:55+1


From Paris to Singapore (SIN) :
AF256 21:15 - 16:30+1
From Singapore (SIN) to Paris :
AF257 22:30 - 06:10+1


From Paris to Miami (MIA) :
AF90 14:05 - 17:55
From Miami (MIA) to Paris :
AF99 20:15 - 11:15+1


From Paris to Tokyo Haneda (HND) :
AF274 22:00 - 18:30+1
From Tokyo Haneda (HND) to Paris :
AF293 00:05 - 07:55


From Paris to Washington (IAD) :
AF54 14:00 - 16:21
From Washington (IAD) to Paris :
AF55 18:45 - 08:05+1


From Paris to Sao Paulo (GRU) :
AF460 10:10 - 16:45
From Sao Paulo (GRU) to Paris :
AF459 18:55 - 11:05+1


From Paris to Dubai (DXB) :
AF662 13:45 - 22:25
From Dubai (DXB) to Paris :
AF655 00:40 - 06:00


From Paris to Mexico City (MEX) :
AF178 11:35 - 16:55 (ends in March)
From Mexico City (MEX) to Paris :
AF179 19:55 - 14:35+1 (ends in March)



Previously this travel class was available on the 772 too.

These flights are operated by a fleet of 19 specific 777-300ER (F-GSQA/B/C/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/U/V/Y and F-GZNA/B/C/D, and E)

Other routes that previously operated La Premiere service but are now terminated (as P service) included Osaka, Lagos, Beijing, Atlanta, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Chicago, Houston, Montreal and Johannesburg. (Or even the overnight flight to Sao Paulo for example.)

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AF « La Premičre » Outlook

Old Dec 4, 2020, 12:41 pm
  #226  
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
My 2c : 2 rows of 4 seats
Wondering how would or could they achieve the current single row privacy with 2 rows.
Side curtains work great on the sides of course, but what about behind row 1 and in front of row 2?
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 1:52 pm
  #227  
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Originally Posted by matmatlr
I definitely will
For MEX, my 2 last trips in P since october were empty, I was the only passenger. Let's see next January if it improves.

GRU will not have P until next April for sure. Flying there on sunday with A350 which is at least a good J seat
I meant pre-Covid : how were the loads in P usually ?

Originally Posted by matmatlr
It would be nice if they could introduce P to YUL or YYZ as I'm there often (I mean before Covid)
P to YUL has not worked in the past. And YYZ, very unlikely IMO.

Originally Posted by SFO777
Wondering how would or could they achieve the current single row privacy with 2 rows.
Side curtains work great on the sides of course, but what about behind row 1 and in front of row 2?
I thought the same. Likely using the same divider they have between P and J ?
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 1:57 pm
  #228  
 
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
I am guesing JFK and LAX for sure. IAD sometimes. In my experience, JNB had decent loads in P, often > 4. I believe you can tell us for MEX and GRU ?
Agree on JFK.
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 1:58 pm
  #229  
 
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
I meant pre-Covid : how were the loads in P usually ?
MEX with A380, it was around 3/4 passengers most of the time with some exceptions moving to 6/7

GRU with 77W was 50% full most of the time but it was not that rare to have full occupancy
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 7:36 pm
  #230  
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Originally Posted by matmatlr
MEX with A380, it was around 3/4 passengers most of the time with some exceptions moving to 6/7

GRU with 77W was 50% full most of the time but it was not that rare to have full occupancy
To relate to another post.
What were the best F fares out of MEX and out of MUC or other EU?
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Old Dec 5, 2020, 1:37 am
  #231  
 
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Originally Posted by brunos
To relate to another post.
What were the best F fares out of MEX and out of MUC or other EU?
Interesting question

From my experience, I always fly from EU and I try to buy my tickets in advance so I can get interesting rates.
My main destinations in P are GRU, MEX, JFK and I used to fly to PVG almost every month.

I have been flying in P from BUD, BLQ, MUC, BCN, LHR, NTE and of course CDG.

Last year I managed to get several BCN - MEX or BLQ - MEX for around 4,8k€ (round trip in P) which was close from flying to MEX from CDG in J.
From MUC, round trip is more around 5,5 / 6k€

Impossible to get similar rates for GRU and JFK as they're more around 6 to 7k€.
But by mixing one leg in J and another in P, its definitely possible to be below 5,5 k€
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Old Dec 5, 2020, 4:27 am
  #232  
 
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
I am guesing JFK and LAX for sure. IAD sometimes. In my experience, JNB had decent loads in P, often > 4. I believe you can tell us for MEX and GRU ?
I would say also DXB and MIA. The times I flew to DXB in P the cabin was always full. Sometimes just with 3 pax but never below. MIA on the A380 was also almost full inbound and outbound (5-7 seats taken).

I will tell on such routes as I'm flying in January to DXB and later to MIA.
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Old Dec 5, 2020, 11:30 pm
  #233  
 
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Originally Posted by AlexBelt
I would say also DXB and MIA. The times I flew to DXB in P the cabin was always full. Sometimes just with 3 pax but never below. MIA on the A380 was also almost full inbound and outbound (5-7 seats taken).

I will tell on such routes as I'm flying in January to DXB and later to MIA.
I've been solo P passenger when flying DXB-CDG when I flew last time. Still remember the enormous amount of delicious champagne I had on my DXB-CDG-SFO flights (both in P and in B777)

Pricewise, for me it's usually difference between J / P. I'd usually fly one way in J and the other way in P. Usually when flying SFO-CDG-PRG the "low price - pre-covid and w/o promo" for a trip in J used to be 3600 USD (promo would go as low as 2000 USD!), while with P one way is around 5500 USD.

Originally Posted by Goldorak
I thought the same. Likely using the same divider they have between P and J ?
Wouldn't wall / curtain between the seats do the job just fine?

Originally Posted by Bullspread
These 77W are coming from the COI and 42J stock.
Good to hear about NEV4 reduction. Had a reminder flying in "old" D1 763 last week (HNL-SLC, wish they kept the A330 there from previous years) reminded that AF still has planes even with worse J seat :-P

Last edited by Sjondorn; Dec 5, 2020 at 11:43 pm
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 4:16 am
  #234  
 
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Originally Posted by Bullspread
For your information, 7 AF-77W will be retrofit with 8 P seats !
These 77W are coming from the COI and 42J stock.

I have no info so far on the exact design of the 8P cabin.
I’ll write when and if I know more .
Good to hear. Actually, when I checked for JFK on some random dates next summer (just to see what they plan in theory) the Air France site mentioned "8 seats left" - but showed a B777 as operating. That mentioning has since disappeared.

What does that mean though for the COI fleet? Less planes, less flights? Switching of COI destinations to non-COI aircraft?

Originally Posted by matmatlr

But that would mean at least 8 to 10 J seats reduction which seems a lot.
Maybe they just push them backwards, taking out some Y rows. Or a mix between eliminating J and Y seats, for premium heavy destinations. Already today they have different configurations for their 777 fleet, some with more J others with less. Also BA had a 747 subfleet with a "J heavy" configuration, and Lufthansa had or still has some planes with a signficantly higher J proportion.i

Interested to know on which destinations these planes will be used as it will require a high P passengers demand to get a reasonable occupancy rate
Aren't we all? Lovely topic for armchair CEO discussions on a forum. I wouldn't be surprised if they first and foremost decide on which destinations get P and which not. Then they can deploy the 4P and 8P planes interchangeably, where we can expect some destinations to never see the 8P planes and some to see them almost all the time. Since we are at the speculation game, here are some thoughts. Obviously this is a view for a time post-Covid
  • High premium routes, with potential to see 8P more often than not: JFK, LAX, SFO, TYO, SIN, PVG, PEK. In Winter during vacation time also MIA.
  • Less premium, but warrants P: GRU, IAD, IAH, ABJ, LDA, to a lesser extent also BOS, MIA during other times
  • Inbetween high premium and less premium: MEX, HKG, DXB
  • Cities I am surprised that they don't get P on a regular basis: ATL, DEL, ICN
  • Historic P destinations with doubtful potential: BEY
  • Cities I would love to have added to the P network, but alas are unlikely: GIG, EZE, ORD, MLE, YUL, YVR, SEA, PTY, MRU
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 6:29 am
  #235  
 
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I hope this means the end of the COI 77W at CDG. Makes more sense from a fleet perspective.

I do regret the fact that Asia doesn't get more P destinations, ICN would be the next one but with KE putting so many P seats on the market (far from being as good as La Premičre I admittedly) I think the market is served unfortunately. The biggest slap in the face is when ICN switches to a loisir 77W instead of a 772/A359 in the winter.

TYO was supposed to go to 4x daily (3x HND and 1x NRT) with 2x 77W (4P & loisir) and 2x 772. I wonder if this can mean more P for the market by maybe sending a 772 to NRT instead of the loisir 77W. Premium cabins starting in Japan are usually priced double what they are in Europe so who knows....
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 8:12 am
  #236  
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Originally Posted by matmatlr

But that would mean at least 8 to 10 J seats reduction which seems a lot.

Interested to know on which destinations these planes will be used as it will require a high P passengers demand to get a reasonable occupancy rate

At least, P will survive Covid
The airlines I have flown with 2 rows of F in 77W (CX, NH, SQ) have only 2 rows of J in the first cabin. Compared to the current AF cabin with one F row, that means eliminating 2 J rows (2x4). That means a net loss of 4 seats (+4 F seats, -8 J seats).

Would be interesting to know, if that is just a plan, or if retrofit has already started.
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 1:25 pm
  #237  
 
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Originally Posted by brunos
The airlines I have flown with 2 rows of F in 77W (CX, NH, SQ) have only 2 rows of J in the first cabin. Compared to the current AF cabin with one F row, that means eliminating 2 J rows (2x4). That means a net loss of 4 seats (+4 F seats, -8 J seats).

Would be interesting to know, if that is just a plan, or if retrofit has already started.

Yes. And CX does it with 6 first seats and LX squeezes 10 business seats in those two rows.
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 2:52 pm
  #238  
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
What does that mean though for the COI fleet? Less planes, less flights? Switching of COI destinations to non-COI aircraft?
Originally Posted by Digicola
I hope this means the end of the COI 77W at CDG. Makes more sense from a fleet perspective.
If you remember what was already announced just before Covid and that was discussed in the retrofit thread, we already knew that 2 COI planes would be retrofitted with P seats. So I think this is still this plan that we see and the only new part is a confirmation that P will be kept and that the new planes with P will come from the rest of the B77W fleet (and not from the A350). 2 less COI B77W will not change much which destinations will see them or not.
Digicola : it certainly doesn’t mean the end of the COI fleet at CDG. Even if we don’t like (or I should rather say hate) this configuration, it makes a lot of sense for AF to have it as it is very well adapted to some markets. Of course, this was pre-covid. Who knows what it will be in post-Covid.

Originally Posted by San Gottardo
Since we are at the speculation game, here are some thoughts. Obviously this is a view for a time post-Covid
  • High premium routes, with potential to see 8P more often than not: JFK, LAX, SFO, TYO, SIN, PVG, PEK. In Winter during vacation time also MIA.
  • Less premium, but warrants P: GRU, IAD, IAH, ABJ, LDA, to a lesser extent also BOS, MIA during other times
  • Inbetween high premium and less premium: MEX, HKG, DXB
  • Cities I am surprised that they don't get P on a regular basis: ATL, DEL, ICN
  • Historic P destinations with doubtful potential: BEY
  • Cities I would love to have added to the P network, but alas are unlikely: GIG, EZE, ORD, MLE, YUL, YVR, SEA, PTY, MRU
I agree with most of your list. Just a few comments:
- IAD is very premium heavy for AF. Lot of French, other EU and Africa diplomatic traffic + official international organisms trips (DSK, C. Lagarde were very frequent P pax on those flights when they were working at IMF). So IAD should be part of your 1st list IMHO.
- JNB is not in your list. I would put it in the 2nd or 3rd category. Every time I flew to/from JNB whatever it was with A380 or B77W, J was always full and P always had a significant load. But it is certainly less premium than your 1st category.
- ICN : I have been very surprised when they stopped P to ICN. Clearly some potential there.
- EZE : some potential also (I have flown there in P with a full 8 seats load in P), but as long as Argentina economy will be in the toilet, we won’t see it back
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 4:15 pm
  #239  
 
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JNB, of course! I had that on my mind, forgot it, and then was sitting in front of my keyboard scratching my head what destination it was I had been thinking about.

Well, JNB, indeed, I agree.

The ones I am just less sure about are some of the African destinations. Libreville and Douala/Yaounde were also served with Premiere for many years. No idea if/what the P demand is to or from those destinations.
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 6:33 pm
  #240  
 
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
Cities I am surprised that they don't get P on a regular basis: ATL, Historic P destinations with doubtful potential: BEY
I assume logic with ATL is to make it a Premium hub route to facilitate DL connections?

I've always scratched my head on BEY, what made the market warrant P to begin with?
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