brunos

Statistics provided on official websites can be someimes a bit edceptive.
Seatguru reports 18.5 for DL 777, 17.5 for AF A380 and 17 for AF 777.

q

But in Your experience ?

I have only once been on the AF 380 in Y, and I was very impressed by a very comfortable seat, not just wider than "normal", but also with wide armrests, so that I could actually comfortably use both armrests and my neighbour did the same without any interference (as if there was nobody next to me). I believe that even with an empty next seat, the seat is more comfortable because wide(r), and arms/armrest position is really natural. I think it is Impossible not to notice the difference if you are used to fly in Economy (unless of course one has some specific disability which does not require armrest usage).

Klems

I had to take DL over the Atlantic a few months back, and was also very pleasantly surprised by what I got in Y. The seat was surprisingly comfortable (I was on a A330).
However I will always pick AF if I can, but mostly for a dumb reason: as a French expat in the US, I *love* watching all the terrible French comedies that I missed out on, and those are never available in Delta IFE .

RaflW

NLNO: You got Biscoff on a TATL? They never seem to stock them on my MSP flights to/from AMS. I asked in the galley once, and the F.A. said (with a smile) "Thank god, we'd all be huge back here if they did!"

Goldorak

Let me bring my pinch of salt in this debate , as I have flown both AF and DL a lot those last years
Overall, service-wise DL has improved dramatically. But remember we were starting from abysmal levels. I think OP said DL was now the best N.A. carrier and I fully agree with this. What I am the most impressed with DL is their operational excellence : in 99% of my flights, boarding starts on-time, no one is cheating the order of boarding, plane leaves the gate right on-time, bags are delivered promptly on the carousel. While with AF, boardings are always super messy and rarely starts on-time, AF medium-haul punctuality is not bad at all in my experience, but long-haul punctuality is...super bad and the long-haul operations have been horribly messy for the last 3 months (there is another thread debating on this). Now, for the hard and soft products :

Long-haul J
- seats : I said several times in past threads that I truly dislike the outdated DL B767 D1 product. I much prefer an AF NEV4 seat. Unfortunately, most of DL flights to/from CDG are with the 767. A330 and B77 are OK, but I prefer AF BEST seat to those. Overall, for J seats for the reasons explained before, I prefer AF over DL.
- service/F&B : DL F&B is excellent, as AF. As a French person, I prefer AF service and F&B, but I have no problem taking a DL flight in D1 F&B-wise. I need to mention that being Ultimate, I usually have extra attentions with AF, which also makes me prefer AF over DL because on DL, I am Mr Nobody.

Long-haul Y
I need to admit that I haven't flown DL long-haul in Y for a century, so my opinion has no value here. But I heard from friends/colleagues that it has improved a lot on DL, but again we were starting from unacceptable levels so it was not hard to improve. I have flown AF Y long-haul a few times and always enjoyed the service (+ some extra attentions as Ulti) and the AF service is way more classy than the DL one where you think like being in a Burger King.

Lounges
AF wins without hesitation. I will never understand when Americans are complaining about AF lounges when you see the crap that is served in DL lounges. DL lounges have improved in term design in the main hubs, but food remains at the level of a very bad cantine.

US Domestic
in Y, there is no service, so no specific comment. This is still complete misery.
in F, service is very professional but food is inexistent on most flights and pardon me to not be impressed about the snack basket...

Overall, I still prefer AF product and service over DL for long-haul both Y and J, but I have no problem at all picking a DL flight in J long-haul. And I applaud DL for their operational excellence.

Andy82

I agree on B767 D1 product, I've tried it for the first time last year on a JFK-ZRH flight and ... well, I was disappointed. The only aspect that I like compared to the NEV4 seat is the 1-2-1 configuration, otherwise I agree the NEV4 seat is slightly better.
Best cabins win over all DL fleet but... A350 & reconfigured B777 D1 suites are amazing. Only NA-EU route with D1 suites though is AMS-DTW afaik, so few chances for me to fly them.

Indeed, Delta Y has improved dramatically. I remember my first long haul flight ages ago in 2008 - MXP-ATL - and it was pretty bad, it didn't even have entertainment at the seat. At the moment, though, I agree with the OP that the food service on DL is a little better than AF - on quantity more than quality -, and I definitely appreciate the EC seats on DL. But food quantity is not a discriminating point for me on Y, so In the end if I really have to fly Y I usually choose KL, because of EC seat+recognition as a Plat and the slightly higher chance to be OP-upped to J in case of overbooking (with KL it happened a few of times to me). In any case, I usually prefer to fly at least AF/AZ PE to North America, so I don't fly Y that much anymore.

Goldorak

I never flew them, but it looks great indeed.

Macaron54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldorak

Long-haul J
- seats : I said several times in past threads that I truly dislike the outdated DL B767 D1 product. I much prefer an AF NEV4 seat. Unfortunately, most of DL flights to/from CDG are with the 767. A330 and B77 are OK, but I prefer AF BEST seat to those. Overall, for J seats for the reasons explained before, I prefer AF over DL.
- service/F&B : DL F&B is excellent, as AF. As a French person, I prefer AF service and F&B, but I have no problem taking a DL flight in D1 F&B-wise. I need to mention that being Ultimate, I usually have extra attentions with AF, which also makes me prefer AF over DL because on DL, I am Mr Nobody.

Long-haul Y
I need to admit that I haven't flown DL long-haul in Y for a century, so my opinion has no value here. But I heard from friends/colleagues that it has improved a lot on DL, but again we were starting from unacceptable levels so it was not hard to improve. I have flown AF Y long-haul a few times and always enjoyed the service (+ some extra attentions as Ulti) and the AF service is way more classy than the DL one where you think like being in a Burger King.

Lounges
AF wins without hesitation. I will never understand when Americans are complaining about AF lounges when you see the crap that is served in DL lounges. DL lounges have improved in term design in the main hubs, but food remains at the level of a very bad cantine.

While I overall agree with this assessment, let me, please, add my two cents here. You are absolutely right as regards to being nobodies on board DL flights, notwithstanding our Ultimate Platinum status. In a sense it defies the purpose of being in an alliance. On the other hand, DL tells me it is sheer reciprocity. AFKL ignores SkyMiles status when it comes to opup's. Why should DL then indulge us any freebee? We appear on their upgrade lists, but consistently at the bottom of it. I would, however, add a caveat to the extra attentions that you mention as a result of being Ultimate. While these extra attentions have been nearly systematic when flying in J, they are far less noticeable when flying in W, let alone in Y (in line with the idea that on AF, a nobody flying in J will always be treated better than a top-tier, high-contribution PAX flying in Y/W).

Premium Select is an amazing product, light years from AF's W cabin. Unlike AF, DL came late in the premium-economy business. Instead of hastily retrofitting their planes with a half-baked, ill-conceived cabin at the peak of the economy crisis, they took their time and came up with a product vastly superior. As ludicrous as it sounds, we are now at a turning point where DL serves better meals in their economy cabins than AF, and to top it off, they use metal flatware and porcelain, as opposed to cheap plastic cutlery and plates. I have come to the conclusion that seat wise, even DL's comfort+ is better than AF's premium economy. While I still cannot properly sleep, at the very least my back does not hurt after a long haul.

Last, I completely agree with you on the lounges. Hats off to AF, especially at CDG (outstations are a hit or miss, especially when handled by a third party). Although DL has made noteworthy efforts to improve the catering, quality still leaves to be desired.

Macaron54

ok986

Strong disagreement on this one. Over the past two years, I did about 15 long haul flights on a both of AF and DL (between Europe and North America, South America, or Asia). DL FAs are friendly and cheerful, and they quite successfully pretend that they enjoy their job. AF FAs can fake a smile or two, but they make you feel like you're disrupting their weekend (or week day) with the family. God bless your soul if you show up in the galley in the middle of a 12 hour flight to stretch. It's just plain simple who wants the customers to enjoy their flight and who wants to be over with the service. Food is of very similar quality (AF mains are better, DL salads are better, desserts are a coin toss, AF wins with cheese). AF wine and spirits are better, but DL has a significantly better soft drink selection (and unless you're dying for poire williams like some on this forum, you won't miss anything).

DL's IFE is amazing compared to AF, and there's a wifi which is reasonably fast and reasonably priced. For TATL flights (in Y), DL is now my airline of choice. Plus, even as a lowly FB Gold, I always get a free upgrade to Economy Comfort/Premium Economy on DL, whether domestic or TATL.

And one thing not to be forgotten - DL guarantees your bag will be on the carousel within 20 min of landing. Can AF guarantee that? From this (and the other forum), I get a feeling they cannot even guarantee your bag will materialize ever again...

Macaron54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ok986

DL FAs are friendly and cheerful, and they quite successfully pretend that they enjoy their job. AF FAs can fake a smile or two, but they make you feel like you're disrupting their weekend (or week day) with the family.

Absolutely true! AF flight attendants are a mixed bag, with the loveliest people, cheerful and eager to help, as well as the snootiest ones, abrasive and uncooperative. In a sense, AF flight attendants are a reflection of the airline, from what is most praiseworthy to what we utterly loathe. They mirror the inconsistency we have alluded to so many times on this forum, which is rooted to the absence of accountability at AF.

Sjondorn

Actually, for completeness there is also 757 with D1 seats (short & 2-2 configuration) and they fly on some TATL routes afaik, not just transcons. These are the worst ones.

I've only flown DL Y twice 5 years ago, if I recall right, against AF Y they had more frequent snack / water service (while AF just had bar in alley). But I haven't flown long-haul Y for more than 3 years, so I can't tell much.

I never flown US Domestic Y so far. When it comes to F, short flights only have snack service (I believe flights over 900 miles have meal service.), but you haven't mentioned that the seat is actually larger and wider (i.e. no middle blocked seat). Also domestic F doesn't get you lounge access, you need to have credit card for that (AMEX Platinum).

Also don't forget that DL has wifi. Always a pleasure to let someone know that you're above middle of the pacific right now

Andy82

Yes, they do some TATL routes. I've taken once the RDU-CDG last year, and I was in Y though. Turbulence is slightly more significant on a narrow body, at least for my impression - and definitely, for a J ticket, I would rather add a connection in mainland US rather than flying the 757.

Goldorak

Good to know. No personal experience on those, as every time I am booked on such a flight, it get cancelled or I have to change my travel itinerary due to weather, delays, etc.

Zarmakuizz

I will sum up the DL experience this summer I had: 2 on the A350, 2 on refurnished A330-300, 2 on old A330-200, 2 on old B767.
Food-wise, AF and KL have "optimized their costs", having only 2 meal options (1 with meat, 1 vegetarian) in Y, that are... well, AF went down to the KL standard. Still okay.
KL long-haul Y diminished: on AMS to the US, the two snacks given mid- and late in the flight are now so small, I had to ask for 2 more of them.
DL service is different depending on the plane. On their old planes, options are closer to AF.
On their new or refurnished planes, you get 3 choices of standard meal, including 2 vegetarian offers that are superior to the meat one. One of the vegetarian offers is Indian-style, and really healthy compared to the usual Y standards! On Europe to US East coast flights, the mid and the late snacks are well ajusted, I didn't need to ask for more. On top of that, Delta coffee and drink cups are way larger, thus you don't usually need to call a FA back for some more.

Delta FAs are always smiling, probably more than the KL crew, and they have that je-ne-sais-quoi in their tone, typical from US customer service.

Overall the Delta experience can go from "same as in AF" to really great. I can lose any change of op-up in exchange of DL's service on a refurnished plane.

On a DTW->BNA flight, the air conditionner (always too cold in the US) even had sprayer, for even more freshness. At that time, I regretted being in shirt
The free chat communication and the available movies and series are nice on those domestic flights.
I am unsure what you meant by "no service"? I got a drink (in an oversized cup) and snacks on my 4 DL Y trips so far, as usual. And, I have once been upgraded on a DL domestic flight that wasn't even full. Too bad I fell asleep the very second I sit in my seat.

LY777