stan1162

As someone who experience DVT and blood clots in every lobe in my lungs Dec 2017, I can speak from experience. I probably got them quick turn to France over Thanksgiving. Dec 21st got diagnosed at ER. I flew (short trips) 2 months after the clots. And guess what, I did it in COACH!! And survived. Not everyone can afford to take weeks and weeks off AND travel in lie flats. Most will travel in the back of the bus. And, I had an aisle for my first trip and got move mysteriously somehow to a middle seat. Didn't hold up the plane.

I am lucky to be alive. Quit your whining. Sorry, had to be said.

Often1

Phone agents do not handle medical issues. AF has a separate service which handles this and it is all very clearly explained on the website. OP says that his surgeon only gave medical clearance based on a 180 degree recline of the seat. That is the type of clearance which ought to have been made through the medical service by the surgeon and OP and, if AF could not fulfill the medical requirements, it would have so advised OP and his surgeon and denied him medical clearance to travel.

This took me less than 30 seconds to find on the AF webside, this 1/80th of he time OP spent on the phone with a sales person who has nothing to do with medical clearance.

https://www.airfrance.us/US/en/commo...rd_medical.htm

ijgordon

SwissCircle

TMOliver

1. Remember; you're dealing with the French, capable of both convenience and inconvenience, i.e. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45174382.

2. I chose a general anesthetic for my hip replacement, but they did have me on my feet by 6PM, after surgery at 1PM, but was helped through rehab by an excitingly appealing young physical therapist who favored skin-tight apparel, better than a flat bed any day.

3. She taught me not to undertake anything (even lust) suddenly or too soon (which included travel for work).

4. I had long before learned for myself that even unpleasant destinations are best arrived at a day early.

5. We have not only allowed but even forced airlines to become as inhospitable as they so often seem. Our thirst for rapid travel has destroyed all but occasionally appealing rail journeys, and the grand Transatlantic liners have all been hammered into razor blades.

C'est la vie....

NewUSflyer

Agreed, I think it is fair to ask for a response. OP researched his options and called for confirmation when it wasn't clear online. I miss how the responsibility of OP to get that information confirmed (the lie-flat seat) extends beyond this? The airline rep seemed well-informed on the situation and gave incorrect info - that is simply not good and goes against the airline's 'promise'.

I know this goes against the thread's consensus, and by no means do I know better than the far more experienced flyers here, but I would say that AF could at least respond to that.

fassy

MSPeconomist

San Gottardo

I agree with most posters here that there is no ground for compensation.

But still, if it wasn't for the pi$$ poor job of the phone agent the situation hadn't arisen in the first place. Yes, we can "blame" (we actually kindly suggest) the OP to do more research on the net, on this forum, etc. But seriously, what does that say about the airline when you can't trust their own information but have to resort to third party channels? The anecdote with the contradicting posts just supports it, AF doesn't get its act together. Clueless agents who tell you things that as an experienced traveler you know are bogus - doesn't that happen frequently? And all too frequently with AF?

Thus, indeed, no ground for compensation, but still by Air France for not being able to properly inform its customers about its own products.

JayCey

Dear Friend,

I must comment. You're giving misinformation that could lead to difficulties for passengers with disabilities, and so just a short response to your post. I do understand that the medical clearance page is complicated, and you may not have read it carefully as you probably haven't had to deal with AF's medical service and Saphir as much as I have. So let me explain for those viewers following along from home:

On the link you provided, two different cases are discussed by AF concerning the issue of Medical Clearance:

(1) Cases where it might it might do harm to the passenger in question to fly, such as:

• Pregnancy,
• Recent surgery,
• An appendage in a cast.

(B) Cases where it might do harm to the other passengers or the flight, or require extra effort from the flight staff for the passenger in question to fly, such as:

• You are traveling with a stretcher or incubator,
• You need oxygen therapy at a rate exceeding 2 liters/minute,
• You may need extraordinary medical assistance during the flight due to your state of health*,
• You have a contagious disease*.

Only cases that fall under (2) require Air France to be made aware of the passenger's condition. Only in (2) must the patient receive medical clearance from AF.

In cases that fall under (1) it is recommended that the patient consult a doctor, but AF does not require it, nor is there any official means for cases in the first group for the passenger to declare the doctor's opinion (for example, there isn't any form).

Since I fall under (1) I consulted my own doctor, but did not require AF's clearance, nor was there any means for me to convey the doctor's opinion to AF, except in the way I did. And since I no longer require special assistance, I no longer fall under Saphir (as AF informed me when I called to check the cabin configuration). My case, on the contrary, has the same status as a special meal: I need what are called "special inflight arrangements" and, as with a meal, I could call to request those arrangements . . . which I did by checking the cabin configuration, and giving the background information as to why I needed that configuration.

warmest greetings and good luck to those of you who have to deal with these situations on a regular basis, unlike the lucky ones like me who (hopefully) will get past this relatively quickly.

KLouis

Rather than looking at AF's mistakes and it's staff's attitude, here is some plain physics: The forces acting on the implant/bone resulting from the 10 degree slanting of the lie-flat seat are much, much, much lower than from the forces resulting from standing (let alone walking) for 11 hours (which was against your surgeon's explicit advice) and why watching the actual operation is an anatomical impossibility (by the way, a hip replacement with an epidural instead of general anaesthesia is routine and not a sign of... anything by the patient), I am sympathetic with your -failed- wish to be upgraded to First, but other than that, much ado about nothing

PS Six operations during the last 10 years, including an open heart one and an aortic aneurysm, and lots of moaning about several airlines' long haul business class seats.

Sjondorn

Actually there's one issue here though, which is that Delta does not have direct CDG-SFO flights. There are two alternatives, flying CDG-SLC-SFO/SJC with TATL segment in 767 with flatbed seats (which are, obviously, better than angled NEV4 ) but SLC-SFO/SJC segment will be about ~ 1 hour in a recliner seat (for non-US flyers - think premium economy class). Otherwise there is CDG-SEA-SFO/SJC with TATL segment in 777 (no D1 suites), with SEA-SFO/SJC being ~ 2 hours flight in a recliner seat.

arttravel

JayCey

Hi Folks,

No doubt thanks to all your excellent advice, AF did the right thing, and my flight back was a true pleasure! In fact, everybody was obviously on best behavior, and went above and beyond to make sure I was comfortable - spoiled even. And when AF staff are their glorious best, I remember why I started flying them in the first place. I'm grateful for your input.

Actually, now that I've read back through your comments, it may not have been due to advice you gave. In fact, only few of you seem to have read my (verbose) post all the way through, nor given responses to the questions I asked! Lots of comments on physics, physiology, medicine, non-profit finances, my carelessness, low mental capacity, moral failings, and inability to make decisions under pressure, even on my body as "anatomical impossibility," and a remarkable number of judgments concerning my decision to earn my living as a consultant, and work 5 weeks post-surgery! I think your talents are wasted here in FlyerTalk - have you considered a Judge Judy like endeavor?

Only teasing - you're a great group, and I appreciate your help.

brunos

Glad that you take the comments here with a pinch of humor.

I side with San Gottardo that AF is doing a poor job with its J product retrofit. It is a shame that roughly half of their longhaul birds still have angled seats while BEST was introduced over 4 years ago (June 2014). The question of why is OT here. And they have been rotating their flat seats plane a lot, in part to give a taste of it to most destinations. This Russian roulette is generating unhappiness among less savvy pax, even among FT regulars. This is compounded by the lack of transparency of AF. The marketing material (and undoubtedly the instructions to phone agents) is to say that the old seats NEV are flat (180o) but with a slight angle to horizontal (they sillily claim 5o for NEV4).. And you can even get NEV3 on A380 which they also claim is 180o. Of course, AF is aware of the issue, but they chose an aggressive, even if misleading, marketing approach. Personally, I would not rely on a call center to get precise information for a seat characteristics, but the agent probably followed AF marketing themes. I\

That being said, you are an experienced frequent traveller (FB Gold within a couple of miles, Million Mile, Premier 1K)and FT member), FT member for a long time. You state in your initial post that you shuttle between US and France (profile) and that you have used AFa fair amount in the past 6 months (it seems you reached Gold already this year). It is a bit surprising that you relied on the opinion of a "biased" agent from a call center. A quick search on FT (or other sites) would have shown that none of AF 380 have flat horizontal beds. And some even have the twisted NEV3. Next time use FT