What is wrong with AF ops these days? Breakdown on all fronts...
Aug 5, 2018, 4:45 pm
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
The good thing in the end was that the Dnata handling agent in Zurich who knew me from three weeks ago when my luggage was lost for the first time had pity with me and convinced her boss to approve a “special delivery” to my place in the mountains (up in a valley, close to the border with Italy, 250km from ZRH, without access for cars) rather than insisting on delivering to my permanent address close to Zurich. But this was Dnata’s service more than AF’s.
Aug 6, 2018, 1:28 am
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
We are getting a little OT but is this not normal service rather than special? I always thought that the airline had to forward the luggage to wherever you happen to be when the delayed luggage arrives, so that if you happen to go for a few weeks to a remote Polynesian island after arriving in Zurich or wherever the original destination was and before the luggage arrives, the airline has to forward your luggage to said island if you so desire. Is that not the case?
What they do in “special situations” is to get a taxi or a courier that delivers immediately (no waiting for other luggage to deliver), only to you, without any other stops in between. In the case of Paris that would be OK for any address in the Île de France I think. But less sure if they’d send a taxi driver or courier all the way to for instance Dunkerque. In Zurich, it would be normal for any address in the wider agglomeration. But not necessarily to a village at the end of an Alpine valley in the Valais where there isn’t even road access. I just overheard the conversation between the agent and her boss, who wasn’t happy as this would cost more than (equivalent of) 650 EUR.
Thus, I was happy about that special effort.
Aug 6, 2018, 2:27 am
#18
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Programs: FB Plat for life, FB PC, M&M FT, Hertz President (+ many low tier cards)
Posts: 2,777
Some pretty interesting observations here. As you may have read in my thread the route CDG-ABV-PHC had a whole lot of issues over the past months:
CDG-ABV-PHC is plagued by delays, cancellations, and frequent schedule changes
Zarmakuizz pointed out the following article there:
http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/vo...18-7839594.php
CDG-ABV-PHC is plagued by delays, cancellations, and frequent schedule changes
Zarmakuizz pointed out the following article there:
http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/vo...18-7839594.php
Aug 6, 2018, 3:04 am
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,554
True but have you seen how badly the BA product has deteriorated over the last few years? BoB in Y, the joke that J catering has become on "medium" flights like LHR-NCE, low quality catering in lounges (even the LHR so-called "First" lounges) to the point where AF CDG lounges now offer better quality catering to BA's LHR F lounges, easy-come-easy-go MF crews, the suppression of any BA personnel (not even a station manager) at many out-stations, very ...umm... "approximate" cleaning of planes, no F product (only a Premium J product), etc...
Yes, AF needs to sort itself out but I hope that it will not mean going down the low quality route that BA has taken.
Yes, AF needs to sort itself out but I hope that it will not mean going down the low quality route that BA has taken.
Aug 6, 2018, 3:29 am
#20
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Programs: FB LTPE, BAEC GGL, EK Blue, SK Gold, Marriott Amb+LTT, IHG Diamond Amb, Accorhotels Silver
Posts: 1,953
Unfortunately, I must say that my experience is vastly similar to San Gottardo's :
My 16 flights in June and July, mostly medium haul, suffered delays from 20 minutes to 2.5 hours.
I have checked luggage twice: once it indicated that it was missing and it was delivered on the belt, the other time it was actually missing, and even after locating it in 2 days, it took them 10 days to deliver in with several hiccups in the process, and a damaged bagage (no news for baggage and amenities reimbursement)
I have been waiting more than 10 minutes every times, and I am not speaking of the great amateurism of the baggage service that called me to schedule delivery when the bagage was delivered 2 days ago...
Fully agreed, and, in addition, poor welcome from AF staff at the podiums, especially in T2F.
I would add constant mayhem in boarding processes, departure times not updated while boarding has not started 5 minutes before scheduled departure time, etc.
I confirm you are not alone.
I would add constant mayhem in boarding processes, departure times not updated while boarding has not started 5 minutes before scheduled departure time, etc.
I confirm you are not alone.
Aug 6, 2018, 6:58 am
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Yes. I think we are all in agreement on this.
Aug 6, 2018, 9:03 pm
#22
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,589
This is worrying. We too have experienced multiple issues including delay over four hours, filth and lost luggage. Expecting 600 euros and 25,000 miles in compensation (so far got 160 and 15,000, waiting for more answers) but we would have preferred smoother trips to adequate compensation.
Aug 7, 2018, 4:38 am
#23
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: FB, M&B, UA, AA
Posts: 2,488
I had only a single case of flying with AF in that period, so do not ask me for statistical proof, but the case was a spurious one. Was an ill-fated plane-train combi to Nancy from AMS to start with- first AF threatened to strike, that was called off, only to learn that my TGV Nancy-CDG was on strike and I should leave the meeting I had much earlier as expected with one of the 'guaranteed' trains. So far so good/bad. Then we boarded AF 1440 CDG-AMS on 27 June, planned departure time 18:00. Captain announces slight delay. We are disconnected from the gate and doors are closed, but plane does not move. Captain announces another few minutes delay. KL1243 AMS-CDG which will become KL1244 CDG-AMS with departure time 18:35 arrives at the gate next to us and makes perfect 30 minute turnaround and leaves on time, well before us who should have been 35 min en route by that time. Captain says more delay, excuse is that luggage is wrongly loaded creating an unbalance. That is weird in the first place since a really stupid mistake. But what it makes even more mysterious is that neither me nor my rowmates hear or see any ground handlers moving luggage let alone opening the (closed) luggage hatch. After over an hour idle at the gate after departure time, we finally move, with no convincing explanation what caused the delay. I mean, if KL can do a full turnaround in 30 minutes AF should be able to move some luggage in less time where they lost 1-1.5 hours. I found it a stunning example of inefficiency and laissez faire attitude at AF versus the efficiency at KL.
Aug 7, 2018, 5:48 am
#24
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 12,403
Seven flights in June, five in medium-haul C and two in long-haul Y.
- one medium-haul flight delayed by 25mn, one long-haul flight 20mn early
- no flight cancellation
- baggage: (I always check baggage on any airline) not a single problem
- phone line: I had no need to call
- check-in staff: ok, as usual
- onboard service: fine, as usual
- onboard catering: good, no problem
- seat assignment: no issue
- lounges at the hub: usually overcrowded, staff often late in cleaning tables and seats vacated by previous pax
- mileage accrual: no issue
- one medium-haul flight delayed by 25mn, one long-haul flight 20mn early
- no flight cancellation
- baggage: (I always check baggage on any airline) not a single problem
- phone line: I had no need to call
- check-in staff: ok, as usual
- onboard service: fine, as usual
- onboard catering: good, no problem
- seat assignment: no issue
- lounges at the hub: usually overcrowded, staff often late in cleaning tables and seats vacated by previous pax
- mileage accrual: no issue
Last edited by JOUY31; Aug 7, 2018 at 12:41 pm
Aug 7, 2018, 12:58 pm
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
Seven flights in June, five in medium-haul C and two in long-haul Y.
- one medium-haul flight delayed by 25mn, one long-haul flight 20mn early
- no flight cancellation
- baggage: (I always check baggage on any airline) not a single problem
- phone line: I had no need to call
- check-in staff: ok, as usual
- onboard service: fine, as usual
- onboard catering: good, no problem
- seat assignment: no issue
- lounges at the hub: usually overcrowded, staff often late in cleaning tables and seats vacated by previous pax
- mileage accrual: no issue
- one medium-haul flight delayed by 25mn, one long-haul flight 20mn early
- no flight cancellation
- baggage: (I always check baggage on any airline) not a single problem
- phone line: I had no need to call
- check-in staff: ok, as usual
- onboard service: fine, as usual
- onboard catering: good, no problem
- seat assignment: no issue
- lounges at the hub: usually overcrowded, staff often late in cleaning tables and seats vacated by previous pax
- mileage accrual: no issue
Even AF publicly recognises that things aren’t turning as normal:
Vols Air France annulés : l'intersyndicale met en cause une politique de baisse des coűts
Management says it’s the employees’ fault, unions say that management is incompetent and cutting too much cost.
Last edited by San Gottardo; Aug 7, 2018 at 1:08 pm
Aug 7, 2018, 2:34 pm
#26
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Finnair Plat, Bonvoy Titanium, National EE
Posts: 122
I am surprised that you are complaining about slow cleaning. IME, in the AF lounges (at least 2E-M), if you leave your drink unattended for more than 10 seconds, it magically disappears on one of the cleaners' carts. Really annoying when travelling alone and especially since they close both food and drink areas for cleaning (or maybe while they switch out breakfast for lunch?) at the same time... so basically even your water disappears and you can't even get another for a while. I have to remember to write "svp ne prenez pas" on a napkin, for next time.
Aug 8, 2018, 12:49 am
#27
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 179
@ SG
That europe1 article has lots of different things in it. Even though the announcements from Unions maybe give some insight of what may be going on, I would not consider that as official AF info as in "AF publicly recognizes".
On the other hand, that article also seems to quote (w/o any reference) Air France / Franck Terner as saying they have unusually high % of cancellations, in the context of presenting 2nd Trimestre results ... meaning a period of time indeed affected by the strike (please correct me if this is wrong). He also is quoted as saying these high % of cancellations are strictly the result of the strike.
I do not see where AF has a clear statement about what you describe as irregular ops during the period You are referring to (July) nor where they say it is the employees fault. The title of that article seems to be misleading.
That europe1 article has lots of different things in it. Even though the announcements from Unions maybe give some insight of what may be going on, I would not consider that as official AF info as in "AF publicly recognizes".
On the other hand, that article also seems to quote (w/o any reference) Air France / Franck Terner as saying they have unusually high % of cancellations, in the context of presenting 2nd Trimestre results ... meaning a period of time indeed affected by the strike (please correct me if this is wrong). He also is quoted as saying these high % of cancellations are strictly the result of the strike.
I do not see where AF has a clear statement about what you describe as irregular ops during the period You are referring to (July) nor where they say it is the employees fault. The title of that article seems to be misleading.
Aug 8, 2018, 6:58 am
#28
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,554
@ SG
That europe1 article has lots of different things in it. Even though the announcements from Unions maybe give some insight of what may be going on, I would not consider that as official AF info as in "AF publicly recognizes".
On the other hand, that article also seems to quote (w/o any reference) Air France / Franck Terner as saying they have unusually high % of cancellations, in the context of presenting 2nd Trimestre results ... meaning a period of time indeed affected by the strike (please correct me if this is wrong). He also is quoted as saying these high % of cancellations are strictly the result of the strike.
I do not see where AF has a clear statement about what you describe as irregular ops during the period You are referring to (July) nor where they say it is the employees fault. The title of that article seems to be misleading.
That europe1 article has lots of different things in it. Even though the announcements from Unions maybe give some insight of what may be going on, I would not consider that as official AF info as in "AF publicly recognizes".
On the other hand, that article also seems to quote (w/o any reference) Air France / Franck Terner as saying they have unusually high % of cancellations, in the context of presenting 2nd Trimestre results ... meaning a period of time indeed affected by the strike (please correct me if this is wrong). He also is quoted as saying these high % of cancellations are strictly the result of the strike.
I do not see where AF has a clear statement about what you describe as irregular ops during the period You are referring to (July) nor where they say it is the employees fault. The title of that article seems to be misleading.
I think that the last strike was sometimes in May and we are talking here about the "summer" period from June.
The SNPL press release on 6 August clearly speaks about the current situation. Numerous TV, radio and written presentations also addressed it. Terner spoke about the current situation when he presented H1 results on 1 August.
Of course statistics differ about the number of AF flights cancelled. SNPL menions 258 flights cancelled over the past two months. Unions mention 139 flights cancelled in the mont 15 June-15 July. AF states lower figures.
Aug 8, 2018, 7:12 am
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
@q: You are of course right that the article does not mention all the things that I have on others have listed in this forum. However, there seems to be a sufficiently strong negative impact on operations for this to be a topic for AF to publicly talk about it. I did not expect the airline to go public and say that they have an operational meltdown (which BTW I did not claim either in my OP, nor others in their post)
@brunos: +1
@brunos: +1
Aug 8, 2018, 7:55 am
#30
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 179
If Air France had a statement about problems during June/July, I am sorry, I am still not able to find that in the article you linked. I find lots of quotes from the SNPL statement which is surely one side of the story only (still maybe interesting).
I do note of course that the SNPL communicates a lot; at the moment they do not seem to worry that they could appear as "not so much helping" re-establishing some dialogue.
I do note of course that the SNPL communicates a lot; at the moment they do not seem to worry that they could appear as "not so much helping" re-establishing some dialogue.