The Joon Joke

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Old Jun 20, 18, 4:14 pm
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Question The Joon Joke

Like many Air France observers including serious analysts, I had failed until now to understand how dressing twenty-something year- old FAs in white sneakers and Popeye-the-sailor-man T shirts was going to save Air France from impending doom. After all, they had had Air Inter and UTA, they still have HOP! and Transavia, and the company keeps sinking lower and lower thanks to the unsustainable demands of employees disconnected with today's market realities.

And then I got it during a CDG -NAP flight, brilliantly explained by one of those youngsters who knew exactly why he was there: While the flight crews are, for the time, paid exactly as their AF counterparts, the cabin crews operate on a much cheaper scale.The number of planes and destinations increases regularly, new cockpit crews will need to be added, most likely coming from outside and hired by Joon, a structurally independent company from Air France. If and when the mainline AF crew costs become unsustainable, Air France may have to be closed down, unable to compete in the market. Joon, larger than now, will by then have a younger cheaper and non-unionized employee base perfectly able to take over Air France activity on a transitional basis, just the way Crossair substituted for Swissair in 2002. Joon is therefore needed, as HOP! is a mere brand without a corporate structure and Transavia has too many links and implications with its Dutch namesake and with KLM. Everything else is windows dressing and unavoidable future union busting... Clever!

Back to right now, Joon's modus operandi makes no sense and is as unappealing as possible, trying to do what Easyjet does well, but far less competently than Easyjet. These things need thinking and they haven't been thought of. Check-in at CDG 2F is in a remote inhospitable zone (5) which feels, looks and smells like a refugee camp. Passengers are made to check-in with automats and to affix their baggage tags without guidance or supervision, probably resulting in tags falling off and baggage left behind or misdirected.

One of the FAs on my flight was in very VERY bad need of a shower.. The catering was minimal, not expensive but very unattractive compared to Easyjet, Vueling or Iberia. To top it all, I was seated (by choice and at a cost) in the row between two overwing emergency exits (11C).. After the smelly FA did (well) his job removing my neighbor's everything in the seat, sweater, handbag, sandwich bag, to put them in the overhead locker, I noticed that my seat was fully reclinable and blocked, when reclined, optimal access to the exit behind me. I never saw this in decades of flying and notified the FA who told the purser. Upon disembarking, the captain drew me aside and seriously explained that this was perfectly normal and admissible. DUH... Case rested.

I returned in "Business Class" on another Joon flight two days later. Extremely minimal catering, tiny inedible politically correct things ("organic"), minimal drink service, not even a refill. Why not just provide for free a choice of what is for sale in Coach? It would not be good but at least less bad.

Joon may be ready to take over if/when Air France finally collapses, but its present operation from a passenger standpoint has many MANY wrinkles.

Last edited by Cofyknsult; Jun 21, 18 at 1:38 am
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Old Jun 20, 18, 6:26 pm
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Originally Posted by Cofyknsult View Post
I returned in "Business Class" on another Joon flight two days later. Extremely minimal catering, tiny inedible politically correct things ("organic"), minimal drink service, not even a refill. Why not just provide for free a choice of what is for sale in Coach? It would not be good but at least less bad.
I booked a AF ticket in J flying in September. This has now been changed to Joon. Am I entitled to a refund or compensation due to another J product being offered?
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Old Jun 20, 18, 11:22 pm
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Originally Posted by KLBGO View Post
I booked a AF ticket in J flying in September. This has now been changed to Joon. Am I entitled to a refund or compensation due to another J product being offered?
No. This is still an AF flight. And, in J, the product is supposed to be the same (or with minimal difference).
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Old Jun 21, 18, 12:07 am
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Originally Posted by KLBGO View Post
I booked a AF ticket in J flying in September. This has now been changed to Joon. Am I entitled to a refund or compensation due to another J product being offered?
If it's a fully refundable ticket, yes, otherwise most likely not.
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Old Jun 21, 18, 7:00 am
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Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post

No. This is still an AF flight. And, in J, the product is supposed to be the same (or with minimal difference).
I had 2 flights with Joon in April, TXL-CDG vv. The catering was the same as on an AF flight including the champagne.
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Old Jun 21, 18, 8:36 am
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Originally Posted by Carel1 View Post
I had 2 flights with Joon in April, TXL-CDG vv. The catering was the same as on an AF flight including the champagne.
On Italian routes, with Alitalia virtually DEAD and being the sole competition, it is quite obvious that AF / Joon does not feel the competitive heat. Things will hopefully change when the new Air Italy replaces them. They have Qatar Airways' deep pockets.
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Old Jun 21, 18, 9:27 am
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Originally Posted by Cofyknsult View Post
On Italian routes, with Alitalia virtually DEAD and being the sole competition, it is quite obvious that AF / Joon does not feel the competitive heat. Things will hopefully change when the new Air Italy replaces them. They have Qatar Airways' deep pockets.
Quite the contrary : on the CDG-TXL route, AF has only Easyjet as a competitor (LH doesn't fly directly from paris to berlin).
Between Paris and Italy, there is much more competition from low cost operators (and Alitalia, even if "virtually dead" is still operating a lot of flights)
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Old Jun 21, 18, 9:51 am
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Originally Posted by thibderoc View Post
and Alitalia, even if "virtually dead" is still operating a lot of flights
Indeed - and their fares are all but cheap (see the LIN-CDG market), which suggests that they still hold a decent market-share (I would add: they've been virtually dead for years now but, as you say, they still operate a lot of flights).

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Old Jun 22, 18, 6:55 am
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Originally Posted by Cofyknsult View Post
Like many Air France observers including serious analysts, I had failed until now to understand how dressing twenty-something year- old FAs in white sneakers and Popeye-the-sailor-man T shirts was going to save Air France from impending doom. After all, they had had Air Inter and UTA, they still have HOP! and Transavia, and the company keeps sinking lower and lower thanks to the unsustainable demands of employees disconnected with today's market realities.

And then I got it during a CDG -NAP flight, brilliantly explained by one of those youngsters who knew exactly why he was there: While the flight crews are, for the time, paid exactly as their AF counterparts, the cabin crews operate on a much cheaper scale.The number of planes and destinations increases regularly, new cockpit crews will need to be added, most likely coming from outside and hired by Joon, a structurally independent company from Air France. If and when the mainline AF crew costs become unsustainable, Air France may have to be closed down, unable to compete in the market. Joon, larger than now, will by then have a younger cheaper and non-unionized employee base perfectly able to take over Air France activity on a transitional basis, just the way Crossair substituted for Swissair in 2002. Joon is therefore needed, as HOP! is a mere brand without a corporate structure and Transavia has too many links and implications with its Dutch namesake and with KLM. Everything else is windows dressing and unavoidable future union busting... Clever!

Back to right now, Joon's modus operandi makes no sense and is as unappealing as possible, trying to do what Easyjet does well, but far less competently than Easyjet. These things need thinking and they haven't been thought of. Check-in at CDG 2F is in a remote inhospitable zone (5) which feels, looks and smells like a refugee camp. Passengers are made to check-in with automats and to affix their baggage tags without guidance or supervision, probably resulting in tags falling off and baggage left behind or misdirected.

One of the FAs on my flight was in very VERY bad need of a shower.. The catering was minimal, not expensive but very unattractive compared to Easyjet, Vueling or Iberia. To top it all, I was seated (by choice and at a cost) in the row between two overwing emergency exits (11C).. After the smelly FA did (well) his job removing my neighbor's everything in the seat, sweater, handbag, sandwich bag, to put them in the overhead locker, I noticed that my seat was fully reclinable and blocked, when reclined, optimal access to the exit behind me. I never saw this in decades of flying and notified the FA who told the purser. Upon disembarking, the captain drew me aside and seriously explained that this was perfectly normal and admissible. DUH... Case rested.

I returned in "Business Class" on another Joon flight two days later. Extremely minimal catering, tiny inedible politically correct things ("organic"), minimal drink service, not even a refill. Why not just provide for free a choice of what is for sale in Coach? It would not be good but at least less bad.

Joon may be ready to take over if/when Air France finally collapses, but its present operation from a passenger standpoint has many MANY wrinkles.
I fully recognize what you are saying about Joon's lack of professionalism. I get the feeling the crew are "winging it" sometimes. I was shocked on a recent full flight to see almost all of the exit row seats being occupied by Chinese passengers (no English or French spoken) and an Latin American lady with a lap infant. Never saw that before. Crew let them all continue sitting there. They should have been moved for safety reasons!
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Old Jun 22, 18, 7:34 am
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Regarding flights to/from Portugal (LIS and OPO), AF/Joon has a minority market share. TP operates 8 daily flights from LIS and 3 from OPO, while AF only operates 4 daily flights from LIS (except in the peak of summer) and 3 weekly from OPO. In addition to this, routes to Paris are also operated by U2, TO, ZI (which now also code-shares with TP), FR and VY from both LIS and OPO. And in the business segment, TP wins hands down in terms of meal service.
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Old Jul 2, 18, 4:02 am
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For my first Joon flight this week - to a monsoon-soaked BOM:
J9 C9 D8 I7 Z7 O7 W6 S6 A6 Y9 B9 M8 U5 K4 H3 L0 Q0 T0 N0 R0 V0 X0

Looks like I will be in splendid isolation in PE - only 3/21 seats sold so far - unless there are some good upgrade offers from Eco or Joon crews already have a friends and family upgrade 'policy' in operation...
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Old Jul 2, 18, 2:57 pm
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Originally Posted by PeteM01 View Post
For my first Joon flight this week - to a monsoon-soaked BOM:
J9 C9 D8 I7 Z7 O7 W6 S6 A6 Y9 B9 M8 U5 K4 H3 L0 Q0 T0 N0 R0 V0 X0

Looks like I will be in splendid isolation in PE - only 3/21 seats sold so far - unless there are some good upgrade offers from Eco or Joon crews already have a friends and family upgrade 'policy' in operation...
it seems that you are mixing different information source here. Your 3/21 comes obviously from the seat map and this a very unreliable indication on the actual bookings in W. The other figures you posted (W6 S6 A6) shows that there are only 6 seats bookable in PE, so this is rather indicating relatively solid bookings. Add to that Eco which seems to be well booked too : the numbers you post, in my experience, indicates an an almost full Y cabin (so overflow to W may happen). J cabin seems to be wide open.
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Old Jul 3, 18, 2:37 am
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Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post

it seems that you are mixing different information source here. Your 3/21 comes obviously from the seat map and this a very unreliable indication on the actual bookings in W. The other figures you posted (W6 S6 A6) shows that there are only 6 seats bookable in PE, so this is rather indicating relatively solid bookings. Add to that Eco which seems to be well booked too : the numbers you post, in my experience, indicates an an almost full Y cabin (so overflow to W may happen). J cabin seems to be wide open.
Darn it! I was quite looking forward to a bit of peace and quiet...Edit: still only 3/21 seats taken at OLCI. Hmm.

Last edited by PeteM01; Jul 4, 18 at 8:23 am
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Old Jul 6, 18, 11:36 pm
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Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post

it seems that you are mixing different information source here. Your 3/21 comes obviously from the seat map and this a very unreliable indication on the actual bookings in W. The other figures you posted (W6 S6 A6) shows that there are only 6 seats bookable in PE, so this is rather indicating relatively solid bookings. Add to that Eco which seems to be well booked too : the numbers you post, in my experience, indicates an an almost full Y cabin (so overflow to W may happen). J cabin seems to be wide open.
The PE cabin on this Joon flight had only 9/21 seats occupied and at least 1 of the occupants was upgraded at the gate from Delta Economy+ - so I guess the 3/21 figure a couple of days out might actually have been indicative of the occupancy? J occupancy looked to be little over 50% but Y was full. No 'friends and family' upgrades in evidence!

I have to say that the cabin crew were excellent: young enought to be my children but efficient, courteous and sometimes entertaining. I had a Plat greeting and my request for a glass of red from the J cabin was honoured during the meal. There was also a complimentary glass of champagne or juice before take off, and complimentary wine with the main meal. The aperitif, as reported elsewhere, was BoB and I did not ask about a digestif, being already a little sozzled. There was no offer with coffee, so I am guessing the Poire Williams is not available (or would have to be purchased).

The new PE seats are a big improvement, with great legroom in the bulkhead rows. The recline was good enough for a few hours sleep but the intrusion of the reclined seat into the row behind may be an issue. The cushioning, though firm, was much better than the buttock-deadening 'shell' PE seat found elsewhere in AF. All-in-all, it was a good experience and I would be happy to take Joon PE on long-haul in the future.
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Old Jul 7, 18, 12:00 am
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Originally Posted by PeteM01 View Post
I have to say that the cabin crew were excellent
I've done 4 short-haul flights in C with Joon this year and while it's not statistically significant I must say that the recognition I've got as a Platinum has been always better than the average on AF flights - usual stuff, being called by name (on AF rarely happens), extra attention during service, etc.. and in general I find the crew to look/act a little less frustrated than the standard AF attitude I guess this is mainly due to more recent hiring and training.
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