olivedel

Right. But why don't I get such offers? I NEVER get these offers during OLCI, I have to ask for them at the airport desk.

Goldorak

No idea my friend !

NickB

Well, if this is correct, this would be a vindication of AF's strategy: AF is filling its cabins with people who actually pay for it rather than giving it away for free while at the same time, in the light of Goldorak's post, discouraging people to strategically book in a lower cabin than they intend to travel with a view to upgrading.

HalconBCN

abusive price for the CDG to BCN route. I have often seen it at 79 which feels more reasonable.

wuzziduzziman

Same here...

Concerto

If they automatically send you your boarding passes to your email or phone you need to go back into online check in as if starting afresh, if you’re looking for an upgrade offer. I did that for tomorrow’s flight to Madrid and got offered EUR89 which I thought was a good deal. Before the flight I have a layover longer than 2 hours in CDG Terminal F, so it will be nice having the lounge access. Priority Pass is a disaster in CDG if you’re flying AF. It’s a disaster anyway, with crappy lounges.

ranskis

That is precisely the problem: for non status holders, this kind of upgrade can make sense for lounge access, sky priority, comfort etc. if it is reasonably priced. However they tend to propose these upgrades at a higher price to status holders who already have all the ground benefits thanks to their status.

brunos

carnarvon

Do you mean that there is a pool of people, large enough to justify antagonising AF's most FF that:

- want to fly biz
- can afford to pay for biz
- but book Y instead, risking flying in Y betting on a possible upgrade?

Who are those people?

Who will take this risk if they can afford biz? How many are there around?

What is strategic in ending up flying Y if you want to fly biz and can afford biz?

Concerto

LH4116

Have anyone gotten an upgrade offer from JFK lately? Flying JFK-CDG-ARN in early April. It was originally booked as a Flying Blue award but due to a schedule change, I was rebooked to Air France in a revenue booking class Y. When viewing the booking online I'm given the option to upgrade with miles, but I get an error message since presumably there's no award availability to upgrade into.

Do Air France usually offer cash upgrades from JFK and does the cost of the upgrade vary depending on booking class? I'm flying on the A380 so it has the old Business Class, not sure if it's worth the money for a 7 hour flight, but it would be nice to try out for the food and service.

Goldorak

NickB

It seems to me that you think in very black and white terms with not much room for shades of grey. In your view, it is simple: if somebody wants to fly in business and can afford it, they will buy a business class ticket, period. The only reason why would buy an economy ticket is either because one cannot afford it or one does not want to fly economy.

It seems to me that real world situations allow for more shades of grey. There are situations where one will hesitate between buying an economy and a business class ticket. I have certainly been in situations of that kind many times, asking myself whether it was really worth going for a business class ticket. In those situations, the likelihood of a cheap upgrade at a cost much lower than purchasing the ticket in the first place would certainly be a relevant consideration as to whether or not to go for the business class ticket even in the absence of an absolute certainty of being offered such an upgrade.

carnarvon

Are you telling me that if you are certain NOT to be offered a business upgrade at reasonable price, you will buy the business class seat at high price straightaway ?

Strange...

Long haul is always way better in biz. So if you can afford it, why risk flying Y?

NickB

let us not forget that, ex hypothesi, we are in a situation where I the price of the business class ticket is likely to be regarded by the buyer as "reasonable" or "acceptable" rather than "high". If the passenger thinks that the price of the business ticket is a "high price" , then they will not in all likelihood not buy it, period. The situation I am suggesting is a different one: I regard the price of the ticket as acceptable/reasonable and it is therefore at a price where I might consider buying it. Now, if I know that there is no meaningful likelihood of a cheap upgrade, then I may well end up buying this reasonably priced business class ticket. If, OTOH, there is a very high chance of a cheap upgrade, I think that I would be more likely to buy economy as long as economy class travel is entirely acceptable to me.

I do not think that there is anything particularly strange about it: I prefer flying business but my preference is not so high that I would disregard comparative value.

I thought that we were talking about both short/medium-haul and long-haul. But anyway, the premise of your view is that people will always go for what they regard as better as long as they can afford it. I don't think that this is correct. People who can afford J will sometimes .not go for it because they think that it is not good value compared to Y. The same principle goes in comparing J to Y with likelihood of upgrade. Let us make an extreme and completely unrealistic example to make the point: let us imagine that, for a given long-haul flight, you can either buy a business class ticket for £2500 or an economy one for £400 with a 95% chance of upgrade for £150. Even if one can afford the £2500 ticket, I do not think that it would be irrational to go for the £400 ticket in that situation. Now, you may want to object that the situation is unrealistic as you would not get such a high likelihood+low cost of upgrade. I would agree with the objection but, if you accept that it would be rational for an individual who can afford the £2500 ticket to go for the economy ticket, then you accept that value can take priority over comfort. It then becomes a question of how far we turn the price and likelihood of upgrade dials for the position to be reversed.
The more you value business class over economy and the more risk averse you are, the quicker the position will be reversed. But everybody will have their own personal comfort premium/risk aversion ratio. You simply cannot assume that everybody values business class so much that, as long as they can afford it, they will go for it everytime.