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-   Air France Frequence Plus (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-france-frequence-plus-376/)
-   -   La Première with an Infant (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-france-frequence-plus/1864361-la-premiere-infant.html)

orbitmic Aug 31, 17 11:45 am

I can only join others in recommending that you contact AF or DL asap to regularise the situation. I have no issue with you travelling with an infant in P, I have seen it before and it is not an issue, but they must indeed have their own seat and in P it will have to be fully paid.

SDQBound Aug 31, 17 11:51 am


Originally Posted by tally99 (Post 28759523)
...It could be a rule they don't actually enforce...

Trust me, AF will always enforce any written rule, and especially when it comes to their most prestigious product.

orbitmic Aug 31, 17 12:52 pm


Originally Posted by SDQBound (Post 28760813)
Trust me, AF will always enforce any written rule, and especially when it comes to their most prestigious product.

Well, while I am not sure about 'always', at any rate, the hope that they will allow two passengers to pay for merely more than the price of two in P is unrealistically optimistic.

Hengilas Aug 31, 17 6:54 pm

100% of the time I am not calling and just playing dumb at the airport...usually better to ask forgiveness than permission. However I still think you're nuts for bringing a baby in AF F ;)

Quinlanty Aug 31, 17 9:56 pm

I would call and sort it out in advance. Not worth the minimal cost savings to risk all types of trouble. No problem with a baby in F. Other pax paid for a seat, not total control of the cabin.

FlyWithKaeMarie Aug 31, 17 11:13 pm

Lord have mercy if I ever have to fly in First Class with an infant. I can't stand it in business class, let alone a prestigious product like La Premiere.

ranskis Sep 1, 17 1:02 am

I don't think there is a rule about flying F with an infant, it is just that AF does not fill F fares for infants on lap, so you have no other choice than purchasing a normal child fare with a seat for a an infant travelling in AF F.

Now, it might be that DL filled infant fares that also apply on AF operated flights in F. But although there is no bassinet, you baby still has an F ticket for this flight.

What could happen though is that there is no safety equipment (like oxygen mask) for an infant in F, so you might indeed be downgraded, or your baby be "upgraded" to an F seat. This would be an operational reason that AF must deal with, it can then argue with DL regarding who is faulty and who pays what but as a customer, you should get the whole family in AF first class as you purchased the ticket. I would not call or do anything now.

orbitmic Sep 1, 17 3:43 am


Originally Posted by Hengilas (Post 28762323)
100% of the time I am not calling and just playing dumb at the airport...usually better to ask forgiveness than permission.

Well, there are cases where things 'can be arranged' and things where they won't. AF is not offering a free F ticket where a full price one should have been purchased. That leaves various possible outcomes:

1) Best possible outcome is likely to be that at the airport, the OP has to buy the third full fare F ticket which might be more expensive than buying it in advance.

2) Second possible outcome is that F is full and there is no more F seat to sell for the infant. In that case, the choices could range from one of the passengers not flying (whilst the other adult and the baby will), or that all accept a voluntary downgrade, which might well mean no seats together and almost certainly no bassinet, whilst obviously good seats, a bassinet, and likely a not inconsequential refund would be available now.

In short, in this case, I think that leaving it to the last minute is frankly counter-productive.

awayIgo Sep 1, 17 5:30 am

I'll look at this from an entirely different POV. You are obviously financially able to spend all that money, yet refuse to purchase a seat for your infant. ( in whatever class) Do you realize that in the event of severe turbulence, you will NOT be able to hold your child and s/he can become a flying projectile. It is sad when the class of seat, is more important than the safety of the child.

durberville Sep 1, 17 5:31 am

Just look to the AF tariff. If the rule is in there, it's enforceable. If not, it's not enforceable. If it's not in the tariff and they deny you boarding or downgrade you, you have a fun lawsuit on your hands.

brunos Sep 1, 17 8:32 am

I agree that you should first look at the eticket for your infant. There should be a fare bucket.
I assume that the three tickets are revenue tickets (not awards or upgrade with miles). The fare bucket might give you indications. For the first segment it could be J****/IN. For the second segment does the fare bucket starts with P or F?

Like Orbitmic, I would not wait for the stress at the airport (and in the preceding days).
I would call to clarify.
It could well be a mistake by the DL agent (you have to call for an infant). But if you already paid two expensive F seats AF should be reasonable with you (once you get a knowledgeable agent). I think that La Premiere has a dedicated phone line (I certainly hope so). Just hear what they have to say.

Porcepic Sep 1, 17 8:53 am


Originally Posted by FlyWithKaeMarie (Post 28762983)
Lord have mercy if I ever have to fly in First Class with an infant. I can't stand it in business class, let alone a prestigious product like La Premiere.

Slightly OT, but on a recent flight in J with infants in both parts of the J cabin, I have "intercepted" a conversation between a FA and a passenger complaining about the presence of these infants (btw, who were not so noisy, and for some of them who had their own seats). FA replied that she considered indeed it was not acceptable in J and said she had filed a report to raise the issue.

Found it a bit strange, especially considering the parents were not that far from the conversation. Thankfully my egoism and a glass of Chartreuse has then helped to reduce my embarrassment.

johan rebel Sep 1, 17 1:04 pm

I've got nothing against flying infants in principle, regardless of class of travel. On occasion it can go horribly wrong, though.

I recently had a longhaul night flight on LX, with one infant directly across the aisle from me, and the other in the same row but across the second aisle. The one infant cried frequently but intermittently, the other howled almost nonstop, at the top of his voice. It was like a never-ending primordial scream at maximum volume. I watched him for a while, he actually had difficulties breathing and screaming at the same time, literally simultaneously choking and gasping for air. How he managed to sustain this for an almost 11 hour flight without losing consciousness and his voice is utterly beyond me. I've never seen anything like it. I felt a bit sorry for the poor parents, but a lot more sorry for the other pax and myself. These kids kept 38 pax in a full J cabin awake all night.

Johan

Calchas Sep 1, 17 3:53 pm


Originally Posted by tally99 (Post 28759523)
My wife and I are flying to CDG with our 15 month old infant. We booked through Delta and are flying a Delta plane to CDG and an Air France plane on the way back to the US. We're doing infant in arms on both segments and already paid Delta the nearly $1,000 for the infant ticket which is confirmed on both segments.

Here's the problem...we're flying Delta One / Business on the way to CDG, but on the way back we're flying Le Primere / First on Air France. Looking at Air France's website, it appears infants must have their own seat in Le Primere. What are we supposed to do at this point? I'm thinking we leave it alone and let it get sorted out at the airport. It could be a rule they don't actually enforce or they could force us to downgrade to Business where infants do not require their own seat (in which case Delta would hopefully provide some sort of compensation). My fear is that calling reservations now to sort it out will either result in cancelled tickets or crazy fees.

The booking system charges the same price for an infant with a seat and an infant without a seat on AF La Première fares.

(I presume it was not technically possible to disallow the INF category altogether?)

Code:

CHILDREN DISCOUNTS       
  CNN/ACCOMPANIED CHILD PSGR 2-11. ID REQUIRED - CHARGE
    100 PERCENT OF THE FARE.
        TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT APPLIED.
    MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME
      COMPARTMENT BY ADULT PSGR 18 OR OLDER.
  OR - INS/INFANT WITH A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2. ID REQUIRED -
          CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE FARE.

              TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT APPLIED.
          MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME
            COMPARTMENT BY ADULT PSGR 18 OR OLDER.
        NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
          1 ADULT PASSENGER AGED AT LEAST 18 YEARS
          MAY BE ACCOMPANIED BY A MAXIMUM OF 1 INFANTS
          --------------------------------------------
          FRENCH REGULATIONS FORBID 2 INFANTS - LESS THAN
          2 YEARS OLD - FROM BEING ACCOMPANIED BY JUST ONE
          ADULT PASSENGER .
          THE INFANT MUST BE HELD ON THE LAP OF THE
          PASSENGER DURING TAXI-TAKE OFF-LANDING
          AND TURBULENCES
          --------------------------------------------
          THE AGE LIMITS REFERRED TO IN THIS RULE SHALL BE
          THOSE IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF COMMENCEMENT
          OF TRAVEL.
          EXCEPTION - INFANTS WHO REACH THEIR 2ND
          BIRTHDAY DURING THEIR TRAVEL WILL BE REQUIRED
          TO OCCUPY A SEAT ON THE OUTBOUND AND INBOUND
          FLIGHT.
          THE CHILD FARE NEEDS TO BE APPLIED FOR THE WHOLE
          JOURNEY
  OR - 1ST INF/INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2 -
          CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE FARE.

              TICKET DESIGNATOR - IN AND PERCENT APPLIED.
          MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME
            COMPARTMENT BY ADULT PSGR 18 OR OLDER.
        NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
          1 ADULT PASSENGER AGED AT LEAST 18 YEARS
          MAY BE ACCOMPANIED BY A MAXIMUM OF 1 INFANTS
          --------------------------------------------
          FRENCH REGULATIONS FORBID 2 INFANTS - LESS THAN
          2 YEARS OLD - FROM BEING ACCOMPANIED BY JUST ONE
          ADULT PASSENGER .
          THE INFANT MUST BE HELD ON THE LAP OF THE
          PASSENGER DURING TAXI-TAKE OFF-LANDING
          AND TURBULENCES
          --------------------------------------------
          THE AGE LIMITS REFERRED TO IN THIS RULE SHALL BE
          THOSE IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF COMMENCEMENT
          OF TRAVEL.
          EXCEPTION - INFANTS WHO REACH THEIR 2ND
          BIRTHDAY DURING THEIR TRAVEL WILL BE REQUIRED
          TO OCCUPY A SEAT ON THE OUTBOUND AND INBOUND
          FLIGHT.
          THE CHILD FARE NEEDS TO BE APPLIED FOR THE WHOLE
          JOURNEY
  OR - UNN/UNACCOMPANIED CHILD PSGR 5-14. ID REQUIRED -
          CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE FARE PLUS USD 200.00.
              TICKET DESIGNATOR - UM0.
        NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
          SERVICE CHARGE FOR UNACCOMPANIED CHILD

I would raise this with Delta ticketing to confirm that your child has been noted as INS (infant with a seat) and not INF (infant without a seat).

San Gottardo Sep 1, 17 5:08 pm

AF takes this very seriously, so better to call them. A couple of weeks ago I was in Premiere where the other two pax were a mother and her infant.

However, if you don't mind the expense, go for it, and ignore all the comments about people being bothered by the mere presence of an infant. I have done several First flights with young kids (not sure they were still infant, but I still have a picture of my 3 year old in an AF premiere seat), it was shorter flights to the Middle East, never a problem, crews were absolutely adorable and the kids well behaved. On that recent flight in AF Premiere where there was also a kid the crew was super caring and lovely, preparing a little bed for the small passenger to sleep in with many pillows.

And those that are convinced that infant automatically means crying infant deserve to sit close to someone who snores throughout a 10 hour flight, or someone who didn't take a shower since some time... things that happen in Premiere and last much much longer than the cries of a baby would.


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