Mar 12, 2018, 1:46 pm
Last edit by: N515CR
This wikipost presents an updated summary of AF plans for retrofitting the long-haul fleet with new J (and W) seats. For more details, please refer to the thread below
Last update on 23 APR 2024
B772
21 planes. All B772 are already retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat). A refit programme is underway to standardise the 772 fleet with a 28J 32W 268M configuration, with refits expected to be complete before summer 2024.
- Seating config 1: C28W32Y268
- Seating config 2: C28W24Y260
- Seating config 3: C40W32Y216
B77W
Version with P (19 planes out of 43 77W): 19/19 completed (F-GSQA, F-GSQB, F-GSQC, F-GSQF, F-GSQG, F-GSQH, F-GSQI, F-GSQJ, F-GSQK, F-GSQL, F-GSQM, F-GSQU, F-GSQV, F-GSQY, F-GZNA, F-GZNB, F-GZNC, F-GZND, and F-GZNE)Last update on 23 APR 2024
B772
21 planes. All B772 are already retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat). A refit programme is underway to standardise the 772 fleet with a 28J 32W 268M configuration, with refits expected to be complete before summer 2024.
- Seating config 1: C28W32Y268
- Seating config 2: C28W24Y260
- Seating config 3: C40W32Y216
B77W
- They are already all retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat).
- Seating config: F4C58W28Y206
COI version (14J) (12 planes out of 43 B77W): all retrofitted (F-GSQO, F-GSQP, F-GSQT, F-GSQX, F-GZNG. F-GSQS, F-GZNF, F-GSQR, F-GSQN, F-GZNO, F-GZNL and F-GZNN).
- The J seat is Zodiac Optima (same as chosen for the A350), similar to the UA Polaris seat. The config is 1-2-1 and total 14J.
- The W seat is the same as in the B789.
- Seating config: C14W32Y422
Remaining 77W (the 12 planes in NEV4 "loisirs" config (42J)): 10/12 completed (F-GZNK, F-GZNP, F-GZNQ, F-GZNS, F-GZNT, F-GZNI, F-GZNR, F-GZNU, F-GZNJ, and F-GZNH)
- The new seat will be a slightly improved version of the BEST seat, with a door for privacy.
- Retrofits started in March 2022 and were projected to finish by the end of 2023, but they are late.
- Aircraft in retrofit: F-GSQD (arrived @ ORY 28 Feb), F-GSQE (arrived @ ORY 19 Apr)
- Seating config: C48W48Y273
- Old config: C42W24Y315
B789
- Direct deliveries with BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation).
- Ten planes have been delivered to AF (F-HRBA to F-HRBJ).
- AF initially ordered 15 B789, with the remaining to go to KL.
- Seating config: C30W21Y228
A332
- 15 planes. Retrofitted in 2-2-2 with the Stelia Equinoxe seat. A similar seat can be seen in the UX B787. Also, the W seats are the same as the B789.
- Seating config: C36W21Y167
A343
Remaining 77W (the 12 planes in NEV4 "loisirs" config (42J)): 10/12 completed (F-GZNK, F-GZNP, F-GZNQ, F-GZNS, F-GZNT, F-GZNI, F-GZNR, F-GZNU, F-GZNJ, and F-GZNH)
- The new seat will be a slightly improved version of the BEST seat, with a door for privacy.
- Retrofits started in March 2022 and were projected to finish by the end of 2023, but they are late.
- Aircraft in retrofit: F-GSQD (arrived @ ORY 28 Feb), F-GSQE (arrived @ ORY 19 Apr)
- Seating config: C48W48Y273
- Old config: C42W24Y315
B789
- Direct deliveries with BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation).
- Ten planes have been delivered to AF (F-HRBA to F-HRBJ).
- AF initially ordered 15 B789, with the remaining to go to KL.
- Seating config: C30W21Y228
A332
- 15 planes. Retrofitted in 2-2-2 with the Stelia Equinoxe seat. A similar seat can be seen in the UX B787. Also, the W seats are the same as the B789.
- More info on A332 retrofit can be found in this thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...-retrofit.html
- Since October 2020, all aircraft have the new cabin.- Seating config: C36W21Y167
All retired per ch-aviation.
A359
- Overall, AF will have 38 A359. 22 planes have been delivered as of 22/09/2023:
First batch (20): F-HTYA/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/N/O/P/Q/R/S/T
- Direct delivery with Zodiac Optima, similar to UA Polaris seat (see above B777 COI). Config 1-2-1.
- The W seat is a Recaro recliner seat.
- All the A359 ordered for both AF & KL are finally going to AF (while KL will receive all the B789 remaining to be delivered on the AF sub-order).
- As per an information post by frausflyer , the 20th A350 (likely F-HTYT) to be delivered to AF will have a P cabin. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/33283076-post467.html. However, this eventually did not happen, and F-HTYT has the same cabin as the 19 aircraft that preceded it.
- Seating config: C34W24Y266
Second batch (7/18): F-HUVA/B/C/D/E/F/G
- The 21st A359 (F-HUVA) has the new 48J cabin with small differences compared to the B77W one. According to Aerolopa, it and 17 A350s to follow will not have P.
- Seating config: C48W32Y212
All A380 will leave the fleet by 2022 and so, will not be retrofitted with new seats. F-HPJB is the 1st to leave the fleet : it has been returned to the lessor in January 2020.
All retired June 26 2020 due to COVID-19.
updated information about new J seats deployments and other information
Feb 5, 2019, 1:10 am
#121
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Air France communicated officially today about the new seats for the A330, with pictures :
https://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/a...les-sur-airbus
I quite like the colors and finishes that they used.
https://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/a...les-sur-airbus
I quite like the colors and finishes that they used.
Feb 5, 2019, 3:12 am
#122
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What makes you think they are better than LH J? Without having tried them they seem quite similar to me, including the awkward intimate ottoman on middle seats, where a thin plastic devider is everything that separates your feet from the feet of your neighbor.
Feb 5, 2019, 4:13 am
#123
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A real pity. At least Lufthansa is consistently bad in this respect. But Air France *has* better J seats, so why not use them? A missed opportunity
Feb 5, 2019, 6:47 am
#124
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AF probably wanted to differentiate the product for different markets. Someone in accounting (like me) probably did some profitability/yield calculation and determined certain markets (JFK, IAD, HND, etc....) need or support having the BEST J seats with direct aisle, and certain other markets don't.
Feb 5, 2019, 12:11 pm
#125
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AF probably wanted to differentiate the product for different markets. Someone in accounting (like me) probably did some profitability/yield calculation and determined certain markets (JFK, IAD, HND, etc....) need or support having the BEST J seats with direct aisle, and certain other markets don't.
Feb 6, 2019, 3:42 am
#126
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if you refer to the 1st post of this thread, AF explained me that due to the small size of the A332, it would have impaired the profitability of A332-operated flights if they had to give aisle access to all J seats which mean either a lower number of J seats of less Y seats if you want to keep a higher number of J seats.
Feb 6, 2019, 11:42 am
#128
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I don’t know the names of the various seat producers and models but there are numerous examples of airlines that have a 1-2-1 confit in their A330. In addition to Cathay also Delta, American, Scandinavian, Qantas, Iberia. And I presume many more. TAP and Swiss have the staggered rows where every second row is 2-2-1, all others 1-2-1.
Lufthansa was already behind the market when they introduced their J class, but that was many many years ago. AF does it in 2019!
I understand the reasons, it’s sad to see that this is the only solution they could come up with.
Lufthansa was already behind the market when they introduced their J class, but that was many many years ago. AF does it in 2019!
I understand the reasons, it’s sad to see that this is the only solution they could come up with.
Last edited by San Gottardo; Feb 6, 2019 at 11:49 am
. All about the profitability and market analysis . And financials....cash flow.....
Feb 9, 2019, 6:17 pm
#130
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The question is why AF decided to go the "cheap" route and adopt a sub-par J seat. As San Gottardo mentioned, LH did their analysis many, many years ago and possibly regret their choice. AF choice is the legacy of the previous management team and no consistent with BS views of boosting AF premium brand.
Being able to fit maybe 2 or 4 more seats is a choice that damages AF brand in the premium market. It is unclear to me that it will improve profitability. Increase supply, yes; but what about demand? Empty seats (including staff/family/friends) do not increase profitability.
Last edited by brunos; Feb 9, 2019 at 6:24 pm
Feb 20, 2019, 4:34 pm
#133
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As per the last update published today in routesonline
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...as-of-28dec18/
Air France's re-configured A330-200 aircraft is scheduled to serve following destinations during Northern summer 2019: Accra, Brazzaville, Chicago O'Hare, Cotonou, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Delhi, Lagos, Lome, Niamey, Ouagadougou and Seattle.
Air France's re-configured A330-200 aircraft is scheduled to serve following destinations during Northern summer 2019: Accra, Brazzaville, Chicago O'Hare, Cotonou, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Delhi, Lagos, Lome, Niamey, Ouagadougou and Seattle.
1st retrofitted plane flew on 3 FEB to ACC. Until end march (end of winter season) : the new cabins will be available to ACC, OUA, IAH.
From April 1st and progressively : COO, LOS, NIM, BLR, DEL, SEA, ORD and DFW.
So, Brazzaville and Lome are no longer in the list but BLR is in.
Feb 21, 2019, 3:39 am
#134
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Slightly OT, but an article from Libération published yesterday writes that AF cabins will be densified, taking the example of a 777 on which AF has 18 seats less than KL. Not sure to catch the logical link with the upmarket though!
https://www.liberation.fr/france/201...aniere_1710603 (in French)
La montée en gamme est en tout cas en marche. L’an prochain les investissements atteindront 3,2 milliards d’euros. L’intérieur des avions d’Air France va être densifié. «Le même Boeing 777 d’Air France comporte 18 places de moins que celui de KLM», constate un cadre dirigeant.
Feb 21, 2019, 4:26 am
#135
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Slightly OT, but an article from Libération published yesterday writes that AF cabins will be densified, taking the example of a 777 on which AF has 18 seats less than KL. Not sure to catch the logical link with the upmarket though!
https://www.liberation.fr/france/201...aniere_1710603 (in French)
https://www.liberation.fr/france/201...aniere_1710603 (in French)