f4free

I had sent wo short haul planes in Joon livery last week at CDG 2F.

Where they still operated as AG just in the new livery already

Fabo.sk

AFAIK Joon has been flying shorthaul for a while now.

gordon0808

I've bmow many times on BA shorthaul without any issue.

HalconBCN

Flew Joon twice this week BCN to CDG. I still dislike the brand and would choose AF-KLM any day over Joon if I had the choice, but Joon now dominates the BCN-CDG route.
I noticed one positive change. two of the male crew were wearing black shoes, which looked so much more elegant than the horrible white sneakers 😉
Yet the service was quite slow as they seem to take a long time to process the BOB.

bodory

JN received an A321 from AF yesterday.

Lament

I have been on 4 Joon flights and cabin crew were only male on the 4 flights . Just a coincidence ?

HalconBCN

Just a coincidence methinks. On the flight today from BCN to CDG there were two young males (wearing the dreaded white sneakers) and two ladies.
Staff looked happy. I chatted with them a bit about the upcoming AF strike. They will not be taking part.
When I mentioned that I see Joon as low cost airline, the staff joked that they would throw me out of the plane for saying that. According to them, Transavia is the low cost one.
My connecting flight was to Istanbul (made the connection from 2F to 2E in 40 minutes) and this one was operated by Air France mainline. Full meal served on board, nicer decor in the plane, older, more formal looking crew. Made me feel nostalgic as this is yet another route that will soon be Jooned. So I guess this means passengers will also have to BoB on the Istanbul route?

Goldorak

Yes unfortunately. But, besides the Joonization of IST, they are going to kill this route with their completely crazy times with a landing in IST around 3 am and departure form IST at 4 am. Unless you are smoking good stuff, I don't see who will be crazy enough to book this flight. And I'm afraid KL is also seriously reducing IST (only 1 flight and at not so convenient times). The code-share with Atlas Global will remain the only option, outside TK of course

PeteM01

Hmm. Looking at flights to Mumbai later in the year, and I see that Joon is now the 'AF' option. I normally fly out in Y/W and return in J, and the J fares look very reasonable. What can I expect in long-haul J on Joon flights?

Goldorak

Yes, BOM has been announced a few weeks ago. You can expect the same F&B as AF J, but certainly with a less classy service.
Plane : A340 with NEV4 seats but new IFE. In Y and W : new seats (and new IFE)

PeteM01

Thanks Goldorak. On a 2am flight, I probably wouldn't notice the difference in service so if I could avoid getting stuck on a non-aisle seat with the 2-2-2 arrangement, I would be OK with a (slightly) more affordable J fare. But maybe I am too old for Joon?

HalconBCN

Fully agree on thre timings. Due to a schedule change I found myself booked on the 4am Joon flight in early April but I got it changed to KL, leaving at 5pm from IST is much more reasonable.
Flight from CDG to IST was half empty, which I was surprised about given the low frequency on the route (whereas BCN to CDG was about 80% full, many people coming back from a conference).
Either way, for IST it looks like AF-KL's loss is Atlas's opportunity.

Goldorak

Having spoken with AF about this, here is what they said (and I think this is applicable to most to all EU airlines serving IST) :
- for about 2 years, the numbers of westerners traveling to IST for leisure (weekends, vacations) has fallen super dramatically due to the multiple terrorist attacks in IST (downtown + airport) and Erdogan actions. This type of travelers has virtually disappeared. IST is the only destination for which, when departing CDG, you are questioned by immigration officers why you are going there, how long do you stay, etc. Not very pleasant, although I am certainly not blaming them for asking those questions in the current context.
- Leisure pax are mostly Turkish, originating in IST
- Then remain pax traveling for business reasons, but even those (a significant part) are traveling to Turkey only if really necessary and many are scared to travel to Turkey (this is not coming from AF but from my own knowledge. Several conventions who were supposed to take place in Turkey, were moved to other countries because a lot of people would not attend if maintained in TK).
- TK has a very agressive pricing strategy for both O/D Europe-IST and connecting traffic + a very good product in-flight and on the ground in IST, with many widebodies and multiple frequencies on trunk routes.

In summary :
- dramatic decrease in traffic
- strong competition from TK in term of product and price which allowed them to captured most of the traffic
lead to shrinking of frequencies and service.
But that doesn't explain why the Joon flight is getting so ridiculous times. Would they want to definitely kill the route, they would not proceed differently. But why not axing it directly in this case and just keep the code-share with Atlas Global ?

NickB

At a guess:
1) IST is difficult because it is rather long: a rotation to IST will use your aircraft for a good 8 hours. During day time, there is probably far more lucrative use of the plane than IST rotations. Night time is different since the aircraft would otherwise sit idle.
2) The connecting traffic they get out of IST will presumably be primarily tatl traffic. They therefore want an early morning departure from IST to connect to tatl morning flights from CDG. Unless they want an overnight stop for crews, this is going to mean the kind of unsocial hours we have now: there is not much flexibility for leaving later from CDG. The sector length to IST is such that you can just about do the return trip with a single crew if you have an immediate turnaround. if you have an overnight stop, the crewing requirements will increase substantially, especially if you have a single daily service, thereby increasing the cost of the route quite significantly. In other words, it probably is either operating as it is, notwithstanding the lower attractiveness of flights at unsocial hours, or not operating the route at all.

brunos

I agree with your first point that was raised elsewhere. It is an attempt to better utilization of the plane. But very few EU legacy airlines are doing that with any success. BA does it to DME, maybe some other destinations.

I am not convinced by your second point. It makes sense for the IST-CDG that arrives at 7:00 and can connect to TATL. But what about the return CDG-IST that departs at 22:50.